Whether To Design Open Source Public Records Equipment

[Karl]

Punk, it sounds like you might be very concerned around this project.  It
sounds like you need to know that the situation of people being monitored
by others will not worsen, is that correct?

Me, I am very scared around what can happen to me, and what can happen to
others, and I need to know I will have belief and support around these
things happening, after they are over.  I do not find that belief and
support without reviewable evidence, at this time.  That's roughly where I
come from.

Obviously the engineering work will happen anyway by people who care to do
it rather than discuss it, but it is nice to make sure we are making good
choices, because we can influence that process a lot.

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 3:02 PM Punk-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 04:24:04 -0400
> Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Punk-Stasi said:
> >
> > *Keep preaching surveillance technofascism Jim, you're doing a great
> job.*
> >
> > I reply more below, but it seems the second half of this sentence is
> > the truth.  A commonly-available tool is not fascim, and this is
> > already a technocratic list.
>
>         is it? technocracy means tyranny enabled by 'technology'. I
> thought cpunks were against tyranny.
>
>
> > Jim is discussing empowering common
> > people to _fight_ surveillance technofascism via community
> > "souveillance" which is where masses are empowered to observe and
> > share evidence of authorities.
>
>         that's the alleged theory. In practice he's promoting more
> surveillance using the already existing  technofascist infrastructure that
> he can't actually control.
>
>         where I live ordinary joe-sixpack fucktards are putting cameras
> everywhere because they are afraid of ordinary thieves (whle cheering the
> government). The end result is that there are arpanet surveillance cameras
> everywhere. Same thing is of course promoted by the likes of
> ammazon-mosad-nsa-gchq and other 'private' facades for the state.
>
>         surveillance is surveillance, no matter who is doing it.
>
>
>
> > We have leaders right now, we
> > don't want them, and the balance of technological privilege recently
> > swung toward them.
>
>         recently? The 'balance' of power by definition is always on their
> side(so there's no 'balance' actually). And 'technology' has always
> 'empowered' the rulers.
>
>
> >
> > Punk-Stasi said:
> >
> > *journos have been using 'technology' for a while...to serve and
> > proptect the private-government mafia.
> > The sort of propaganda you're trying to peddle here is infinitely
> > ridiculous. You pick ONE event that suits your 'narrative' while
> > IGNORING A MILLION*
> >
> > Punk, it sounds like you know of a lot of suffering at the hands of
> > technology that may not have been included in this discussion.
>
>
>         Yeah, what I'm saying is based on facts that are widely known
>
>         1) there's a global surveillance state run by the western nazis
> (including all the 'private' companies that ayn rand loves so much) and
> accomplices
>
>         2) historically 'technology' has never ever led to an increase in
> political freedom.
>
> > In  america, we still believe we have a huge majority of hackers who
> > distrust the government: although it is true we are all misled by our
> > media and culture.
>
>         so hopefully you realize that the "huge majority of hackers who
> distrust the government" exist only as a pentagon propaganda meme. In
> reality the vast majority of 'hackers' are sellouts working for the
> pentagon.
>
>
> > Could you be more precise about what we need to
> > know, or are you maybe looking for understanding that technology tends
> > to cause undiscussed genocide?  The million events you describe may
> > have never reached our news.
>
>         I'm comparing the number of times that surveillanec helped govcorp
> like this
>
>
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering
>
>         to the number of times that it helped 'the masses'. Jim has so far
> named 2 cases where filming cops allegedly...changed nothing actually.
>
>         have you ever read this piece of self-parody or govt propaganda,
> or both?
>
>
> http://nakamotoinstitute.org/static/docs/from-crossbows-to-cryptography.pdf
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 5494 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20200610/08d3f2f4/attachment.txt>