Juan, you have a lot of women on your side! - [PEACE]

Zig the N.g ziggerjoe at yandex.com
Mon Jul 20 22:25:01 PDT 2020

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 09:36:55PM -0700, Mirimir wrote:
> On 07/20/2020 04:28 AM, Zig the N.g wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 04:53:28PM -0700, Mirimir wrote:
> >> On 07/18/2020 07:48 AM, Karl wrote:
> >>> i feel so furious reading this!  it becomes so hard to do my work!  zig why
> >>> are you saying these things?
> >>
> >> He's saying those things to piss you off. Not you, personally, but
> >> people generally who care what randoms on the webs say.
> >>
> >> More than that, it's hard to say. Z used to be more of a normal geek on
> >> this list. But then he started trying to satirize and out-troll Juan aka
> >> punks at tfwno.gf, who's been here like forever. So Z has more or less
> >> inverted Juan's tropes, in prototypically Australian style.
> > 
> > 
> > You're a kind Soul, Mirimir, and for this I am grateful.
> Hey :)
> I do get that you say stuff to trigger PC censorship routines, and that
> you don't just do it for lulz. And I do share your rejection of PC
> orthodoxy.
> Anyway, I'm not at all familiar with Dugin, so thanks for the intro.
> It's interesting, but sounds more collectivist than I'd want. I do live
> in a cohousing community, but it's more or less equivalent to a village,
> and not at all a collective.

You might be mixing up my Russophile comments that I mixed in there ... but dasein is actually very close to the "individualistic" modern liberalism, just a much deeper and more personal "individualism" founded in beingness, awareness, personal experience - that very personal existentialism that is inherent in awareness;

my apologies, it sounds like I completely obscured this concept in all my waffle :D

> So does Dugin advocate sobornost style collectivism? And have you read

`dict sobornost` comes up blank, and I do not recall ever seeing this word before.  Let's try Yandex:


   Sobornost is a term coined by the early Slavophiles, Ivan Kireyevsky and Aleksey Khomyakov, to underline the need for co-operation between people, at the expense of individualism, on the basis that the opposing groups focus on what is common between them.

Ah, OK, I have not read Dugin deeply, just listened to the rare English piece on youtube, and the links I posted just recently.

Sounds like a "slavic" concept of the comparative thinking around groups vs individuals.  We can be reasonably sure that Dugin would be up on that term then... I do not know if he advocates sobornost per se.

I think the West, even in this short definition above, consistently betrays its false dichotomies, in this example "the need for co-operation ... at the expense of individualism" - that has to be the stupidest thing I've read this month.

How can co-operating with one another and uplifting each other's unique expression of awareness and individuality that they are, be _at the expense_ of individualism?

Western thinking is seriously messed up.  Cari, please save us from these false dichotomies ... no wonder we're going collectively loopy, the contradictions at the foundations of our very thoughts can only be sustained for so long.

таракан, can you please enlighten us about whether this wikipedia definition is accurate, or if it is a typically "Western" bastardization?

> Hannu Rajaniemi's treatment of that in his "Flower Prince" trilogy? As
> he tells it, all but the few strongest founders become slaves.

Sounds like a worthy read.

This principle of "rule by the fittest" sounds to be right up there with "modern liberalism's" power pyramid of nihilist pricks :)

A rule of thumb antidote might be "pick a principled  _benevolent_  'leader' to follow, if you're going to follow anyone".

Followers are gonna follow, the weak are gonna bow, so perhaps our job could include teaching them about whom to follow, whom there might be a self interest to not bow to.

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