UN invitation for Cypherpunks

[Karl]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 3:29 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 06:40:18 -0500
> Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 9:37 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 15:06:37 -0500
> > > Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >         So quote me saying anything that defends the western
> > > political-economic powers in any shape or form.
> > > >
> > > > here:
> > > > > > >     yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense.
> > > Or
> > >
> > > > you're spewing conflict,
> > >
> > >         Again, provide quotations.
> > >
> >
> > Casting people as evil is an American strategy of ignoring people different
> > from Americans,
>
>         yes, except I'm not a US cunt. And please stop referring to the US nation-state as 'america' - that's the name of the continent.

Good point.  And points out how our culture tries to make things true
by assuming that they are.

> > so you can sell the American way as freedom and luxury
> > without caring whom it hurts.
>
>         yes, that's what US nazis do. Not me. I'm not 'casting' people as evil. I am pointing out they ARE actually evil. Two completely different things.

Nah, that's just the difference between the language you're speaking
and the one I am.  I prefer to always speak knowing nobody is evil.
Helps a lot when I'm wrong about who might be.

Talking about people being evil _other_ than the powerholders, appears
to be a culture that is spread to prevent revolution.

> > "Nazi", which you just said with accusation,
> > is a common enemy image taught in america.
>
>         Indeed, and I'm using it to underscode the fact that it is the US cunts who are the real nazis.

I think you are simply reinforcing my point.

> > "Jew" is held by a smaller
> > group as an enemy image in america.
>
>         the idea that jews are poor blameless victims is another part of your US cunt propaganda and so I'm setting the record straight. Yet another thing that upsets you because you are on the enemies-of-freedom side.

You still preach conflict needlessly.

> > "Nonsense" is a thought-stopping word
> > used in American media in ways that prevent people from listening to others.
> >
> > These things don't mean you're trying to defend america, of course.  They
> > mean you end up doing so.
>
>         Your reasoning is NONSENSE. I. e. logically flawed. I am telling the truth whereas the US cunts are lying. Your problem is that you're pretending to be unable to tell apart truth and lies.

Having been in multiple anarchist camps in the USA and seen them
fall,it is pretty obvious that sowing conflict is how peaceful
communities are disrupted.

>         Also the claim that I'm defeding the US is just...insane. Or a blatant lie. Doubly ridiculous because your story is that  I'm defending the US because I'm too stupid to understand what I'm doing. Ha ha.

Nah, I don't quite mean these things.  The way you take the only stuff
we can hear, and twist it to productively counter what we are saying,
is great, and keeps you safe.  It's better if you can do it without
amplifying the conflict, which quickly gets you censored in some way.

> > "Fake" : disregards expressions of others
>
>         lawl. It is a description. Fake libertarians. If you don't know them then you should do your homework and shut the fuck up before you know what you're talking about. Unless you are trying to defend fake libertarians of course. Which is what you are de facto doing.

I might say "new kinds of libertarians" rather than "fake
libertarians" if I wanted to produce an atmosphere where people work
together to accomplish things.

> > > technocrats/outright agents. I gave pretty
> >
> > "Agents": an enemy image held on this list
>
>
>         There obviously are outright agents on this list. You apparently confessed being a former(...) one. And anybody who promotes the interest of govcorp whether directly paid by govcorp or not is a propaganda agent of govcorp. You ARE what you do.

I don't care that I am at fault for all the problems.  Nor do I care
if people think others are.  I care what we do next.  It is obvious
that we are all being turned against each other.  It is unproductive
to act on it.

As soon as you waste time turning us against somebody again, you are
not helping anything get done.

> > > concrete examples of the garbage they post,
> >
> > " garbage": an American media term causing people to ignore the expressions
> > of others
>
>         Dude. You crossed that line more than once. Enough.

do you mean "America" or "term causing divisiveness" or ...?

> > > showing that I promote evil and now you're
> >
> > Here I see you trying to share honestly with me, but it's kind of over my
> > head because of my short attention span and naive trust =/
>
>         uh oh. 'naive trust'. And now you think you can further take me for an idiot? How arrogantly 'american' of you.

So, if you think I believe I am taking you for an idiot, you don't
understand what I am saying.

Why do you respond to the phrase "naive trust"?

> > I want to
> > connect with you and I don't know how.
I'm also not thinking about what I write too much, and have very poor
relation skills.

> > > just outright lying. The 'conflict' you want to
> >
> > You seem to understand better than me that because behavior is obvious,
> > NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY LIE.
>
>         what

It's pretty obvious I knocked over the flowers, because the flowers
are knocked over, there's dirt on my hands, I'm acting embarrassed, my
boot prints are near them, I'm the only clumsy person in the
community, and 3 people who tend the flowers chuckled when I said "I
didn't knock over the flowers."  When I said this, what I was
literally saying was, "I'm scared and embarrassed about knocking over
the flowers, and I don't trust you guys well enough yet to say it
straight" and many more similar things.  But many people will be
confused unless it's said straight eventually.

> > > avoid entails calling out the frauds on this list. I guess you want the
> > > frauds to be protected from 'conflict'?
> > >
> >
> > Everybody is doing this.  All of us.  You need protection the most here,
> > because I tried to pin this murder on you.
>
>         what

ehh sounds like i took this monologue of mine with you too far.

>
>
>
> >
> >         As to the way your nation keeps the status quo, they do it by
> > > commiting an endless string of all possible crimes from theft to mass
> > > murder to anything inbetween.
> >
> > "Mass murder?  You don't murder your family members to make profit!  Oh!
> > Well I guess I'll be coming out on top, then."  Stop supporting our
> > criminal decadence by helping us compete in our community wargames.
>
>         what

skipping this one cause you sound taxed.

>
>
>
> >
> > And to state the obvious, I'm not doing anything of the sort. Last but not
> > > least, you're comparing me with the US nazi government? What is wrong with
> > > you.
> > >
> >
> > I take such expressions seriously.  Gotta get off this list.
>
>
>         so it seems

it's hard to get off this list =(  but i want to go back to supporting you.

>
>
>
>
>
> > >
> > >         Hard to know what you mean. The frauds on this list understand me
> > > well.
> > >
> >
> > When I was severely coerced
>
>
>         BY WHO. Stop playing crazy and speak clearly or shut the fuck up.

I DON'T KNOW.  Who the fuck tells their victims how to identify them
to authorities.

> >I was forced to speak backwards and didn't
> > understand it.  Then I was only able to talk about my torture in the
> > language I was forced to learn, which denied it, and I got no help.
> >
> > I don't understand frauds.
>
>         what? You don't understand that there are people who say they are 'libertarians' but are actually not? What part you don't understand about that?

I've always done the prefer-simple-truth-and-trust thing.  People
tended to stop lying to me cause i would just give them trust, and I
never really learned about lying in much depth.

> > What you say doesn't make literal sense to me, but you saying that it is
> > the only way to talk was how my torturers talked.
>
>         what

holding off on replying to this cause of the number of "what"s.  we're
coming from pretty different assumptions, and i was expecting you to
infer a lot.  i don't know what yours are, either.

> > > > > >     So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this
> > > list is, and
> > > > > > > further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why are we posting here?  You and I are posting here as part of a
> > > > > > brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >         You and I are different persons, and are doing different
> > > things. And you obviously don't know what *I* am doing.
> > > >
> > > > With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know.
> > >
> > >
> > >         you meant to type "you can* know"?
> >
> >
> > No.  Brainwashing teaches you not to know.
>
>
>         So this sentece "With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know"  makes no sense. But never mind, your overall anti-blame, pro-lies-and-propaganda stance is pretty clear.

I thought I just explained that sentence.

When you get brainwashed, they teach you to have traumatic flashbacks
when you think about things that could stop what you are trained to
do.  I stay unaware of some things I do.

But I was just referring to the bits of USA culture that you happen to
hold and continuously express.  It was probably kinda mean for me to
talk as if we were conspiracy-buddies.

> > Regardless, the claim that 'we' are both part of a 'brainwashing program'
> > > is sheer nonsense. If you want to claim that YOU are
> >
> > You're posting obsessively to a technofascist arpanet list, but I suppose
> > you are more deprogramming us than brainwashing us =)
>
>
>         yes a technonafascist arpanet list posing a something else. A fraud.

So what are you doing here / what is the list about for you?

> > Really it's one of things they do to targeted communities.
>
>
>         And you know that because you worked for 'them'?

Because I've been in a small number of targeted communities through
their collapse.

> > Expose them to
> > intensely different values while suppressing people that " straddle the
> > lines" value-wise, which disrupts the community handling the budding
> > conflict.
> >
> > part of such a program, feel free, but don't speak for me.
> > >
> >
> > Just speaking for the spirit of America that we forced down your throat.
>
>
>         lawl. Don't worry, you are a complete failure at forcing the 'spirit' of US cunts on me.

You have our demon, and I tried to explain it to you a little.  It
doesn't die so long as you ride it around.  But I'm riding too.

Person A: "fuck you! stop doing your stupid stuff!"
Person B: "fuck you too!"

Person A: "hey man, you seem really cool.  I get really hurt when that
stupid stuff happens, though."
Person B: "y'know I just do that stuff cause I'm angry ..."

which of the above two interactions do you see yourself participating in?

> > > > I'd force  myself to forget if I did.
> > > >
> > > > > > brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >         Maybe you enjoy playing crazy, but you better not confuse your
> > > role playing with reality.
> > > >
> > > > Reality is way worse, and you know it.
> > >
> > >
> > >         Another  obscure remark.
> > >
> >
> > Same to you.
>
>         yeah right.

What I'm saying, is that I don't understand what you are about.  Your
remarks seem very obscure to me.