UN invitation for Cypherpunks

[Karl]

Hi Zenaan.  I'm going to try to summarize the things you say, so I
understand them better.  Feel free to let me know when or how i am wrong.

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 11:59 PM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> > > > >     yes and the answer is : I'm not spewing any nazi-jew nonsense.
> Or
> > you're spewing conflict, turning people against each other, which is
> > how my nation keeps the status quo.
>
> Karl, this quote you pasted of Punk, is not him "defending the western
> political-economic powers".
>
Are you saying that speaking in ways that divide people resisting them,
does not do this?

> >         FYI, unlike any of the other posters here, I've done my
> homework regarding liberal political philosophy and I can defend it. The
> other posters  however are either outright fascists or fake 'libertarian'
> posers.
>
> Karl, this quote you pasted of Punk, is also not him "defending the
> western political-economic powers".

Maybe you are clarifying what a quote is, here?    Or helping me understand
something else?  I wasn't trying to make your quoted point with that quote.

> it's rough to have to say everything backwards.  nobody ever understands
> you.
>
> When for you, reality is so painful that you often prefer and role-play
> being "insane", you


To clarify, I have severe issues that would classify me as "insane" in my
insane culture, because I have been through something unimaginably
painful.  I understand most others have been through something unimaginably
painful, too.

also sometimes get caught up in that role play game, and lose track (lose
> the connections in the conversation, lose memory af what happened, what was
> said, and evidently even lose track of the meaning of something you just
> now copy and pasted).
>
I don't understand.  It hurts to read what you say, I imagine spending time
talking about whether my issues should be blamed on my coping strategies,
which doesn't seem like a good investment of time.

It might be more comfortable to you to exist in your "role play illusion",
> but conversation with you, from an onlooker, starts to look pointless, and
> ultimately a waste of our time.
>

It sounds like you care about me a lot, and want to be able to effectively
act on it?  It hurts to read what you say.

Punk is a hard core existentialist/ rationalist, fwiw, and so if you are
> going to try to challenge him as you just tried (and failed), you need to
> be on very solid ground if you wish to "succeed" in your challenge.
>
I think here you are just trying to give punk some more status compared to
me?

If your criteria for that "success" is some other axis than "correctness"
> and "based in fact", then other folks will struggle to


Facts are succinct and are open to other facts standing alongside them.

understand you, and at some point may well give up attempting to (or
> bothering to) communicate with you at all... which of


You talk with too much obscure conflict for me to reply to what you mean,
Zenaan.  I'm not usually even active on this list.

course is another criteria of "success"...
>
>
> > > > >     So hopefully the answer to your question shows how fucked this
> list is, and
> > > > > further shows that the problem has fuck to do with 'coding'.
> > > >
> > > > Why are we posting here?  You and I are posting here as part of a
> > > > brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.
> > >
> > >
> > >         You and I are different persons, and are doing different
> things. And you obviously don't know what *I* am doing.
> >
> > With regard to what I'm a part of with you, I can't know.  I'd force
> > myself to forget if I did.
>
> This position you take (or worse, live) is from the perspective of some
> people, a problem leading to (say) my own conclusion that communication
> with you may well be useless to any practical ends...
>

Same to you.  But like everyone, my ears forever reopen.  They just wait
for respectful silence, to do so.

How can you have any meaningful relationship with another, if you choose to
> forget the facts/reality of your connection with that other person?
>

It sounds like you are blaming me for my amnesia?

You may not want meaningful relationships, that's of course a matter for
> you, but succeeding in meaningless relationships is surely a "success" not
> worthy of bothering with.
>

It hurts to read this.  So many paragraphs that hurt.  NOTHING IS
POINTLESS, MOST ESPECIALLY WHAT YOU AND OTHERS SAY.

> > > brainwashing program, targetting the other hackers.
> > >
> > >         Maybe you enjoy playing crazy, but you better not confuse your
> role playing with reality.
> >
> > Reality is way worse, and you know it.
>
> Karl, your words "you know it" are problematic because thay project upon
> your

Thanks, that was conflict speaking through me.

target that they know something, or in this context, agree with you that
> "reality is way worse than playing crazy".
>

Punk talks like he's been shat on by America.  Since I'm American, I
figured he'd experienced worse suffering than I knew existed, in some way
I'm unlikely to guess.

Many (perhaps most) people find role-playing to be occasionally fun, in a
> childish and whimsical way, but intolerable on any regular basis, and
> certainly intolerable when one seeks greater awareness and truth in the
> reality we find ourselves within, and when we want to try to find solutions
> to problems we face.
>

Wtf are you talking about?  Why is the topic of role-playing worth so many
paragraphs?

If it's any help, I'm using roleplays privately to help approach my
traumatic experiences safely.

My personal assumption about you, your particular existence, is that you
> have experienced past trauma from which you escape or try to handle by a
> few tools such as "playing crazy".
>

To help out, trauma is _why_ people go crazy.  The two go together.

That may be a useful survival tool for you.
>
> But the suggestion is that it is unwise to project your need for this
> tool, upon others.
>

I hear you a little bit I think here.  You're saying others are able to
talk straight?


>
> Good luck and God speed, Karl,
>

It's always nice to find a way to connect with you, because of the shock
memes.  It was hard to get to the end of this email.

>
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