Whites going ape for Blacks in America -- Re: Soros' BLM _finally_ lifting their image, much to Soros' relief -- Re: surprisingly, Soros now pins US color revolution on Trump

[Karl]

Hey Zenaan.

You have written too many strange interpretations of my words here for me
to comprehend them.  It sounds like you are implying I misspoke?

I VALUE THE PRESERVATION OF _ALL_ SOULS, AND SO DO YOU.

K

-

There is proof inside many peoples' electronics.  Proof that a marketing
group would contract development of a frightening virus.  A virus that
responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and changes what
people see on their devices.  A virus that alters political behavior en
masse, for profit.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 9:07 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 07:26:11AM -0400, Karl wrote:
> > I'll respond to each thing you said with fewer words than you used, for
> > clarity.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 12:09 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, Aug 02, 2020 at 11:13:37PM -0400, Karl wrote:
> > > > You didn't respond to my one question to understand you other than
> > > "no"!  =(
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 10:32 PM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > I'm aware of whites killing blacks for sport, in the present
> day.  I
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > have exposure to blacks killing whites, and honestly there are so
> > > many of
> > > > > > us and our way of life seems so harmful to me, it seems the
> lesser
> > > issue
> > > > > to
> > > > > > me.
> > >
> > >
> > > Karl, you said: "whites [are] killing blacks for sport"
> > >
> > > You then said: "[regarding] blacks killing whites ... there are so
> many of
> > > us and our way of life seems so harmful ..., it seems the lesser issue
> to
> > > me"
> > >
> > >
> > > Karl, do you wish to rephrase these words you used?
> > >
> > > At the moment, I am hearing you sanctioning the killing of Whites, by
> > > Blacks, because "there are so many of us" and also because, you say,
> "our
> > > way of life seems so harmful".
> > >
> >
> > I do not sanction any kind of killing.  I prioritize whose life to save.
>
>
> Karl, you say, and I'll quote only one last time: "blacks killing whites
> ... seems the lesser issue to me", and you say this immediately after
> alleging "whites killing blacks for sport", and so with these words, and
> with this juxtaposition that you put to us, you dismiss the killing of
> whites, by blacks, as "the lesser issue to [you]".
>
> You then give two justifications for the killing of whites by blacks (in
> comparison to the purported by you, killing of blacks by whites) when you
> say both a) "honestly there are so many of us" and b) "our way of life
> seems so harmful to me".
>
> From these words there is no statement from you that you wish to preserve
> the lives of whites, only to blame them for "killing blacks for sport"
> which you allege to be true in "recent times", and in fact, you dismiss (in
> these words you use) the preservation of the lives of whites, repeatedly,
> with your stated justifications and with your statement further below that
> "Death happens: the question is whether we hold it as a goal".
>
> So according to you Karl, when it comes to whites killing blacks it
> happens as you allege "for sport" and you seem to imply that we must stop
> this "to preserve blacks" and according to you we must "fight to preserve
> .. their [blacks] numbers", but when it comes to blacks killing whites, you
> justify your failure to defend the right of whites to live (to "preserve
> their numbers") because you say "honestly there are so many of us" and
> further you add that 'our way of life is "so harmful"', and you say these
> things without any suggestion that the numbers ought be irrelevant (in fact
> you raised the very issue that the numbers of "white lives" is in fact a
> ground on which you dismiss the preservation of white lives).
>
> Karl, based on this exchange so far, you are using words, and defending
> positions which you are putting to us, which are abhorrent to any Soul who
> values all others, all lives irrespective of skin color, and these
> positions when held sufficiently, lead directly to great despotism upon
> people.
>
> Further, you appear either intentionally or unintentionally oblivious to
> the plain implications which normal people infer and take from your
> apparently quite carefully chosen words (and if you did not personally
> choose your words, but merely parrot what others have said to you, then you
> are not a thinking person of these words, and in that case you are speaking
> carelessly, but still very dangerously).
>
> Further, you repeatedly deny the existence of evil, and below say that you
> "do not believe in evil", and that you "do not believe anything opposes the
> life of another" (again, these are your exact words) and you say further
> that bullets used to murder another are not an example of evil, but instead
> show us only that bullets and murderers are according to you "[only]
> isolated parts of the system that relate to producing the death, coming out
> in placing human blame on a metal bullet without context" - and you say
> this is without context, even though the context was named (murder) and
> even though in fact it was you who raised this very context (the purported
> killing of blacks for "sport") and you conclude all this by saying that
> "behaviour we hate can exist in systems we love" (as though those words
> explain your position and as though "hate" has nothing to do with evil,
> since evil according to you does not exist, and whites who you purport
> 'murder blacks for sport' are not evil but are merely people who according
> to you "just believe different things are good than we do").
>
>
> Karl I take an opposite position on evil to you, I stand for
> righteousness, and I stand against evil, I choose to stand in the face of
> those who engage in evil, in particular murder and genocide of any sub
> group in our community, and I seek that such people be held to full account
> for such evil deeds.
>
> I have a conscience, and by my conscience I know good from evil, and I
> stand for good, and I stand opposed to evil!
>
>
>
> Karl, to me you appear very mixed up, unable to acknowledge simple evil
> acts which you yourself put to us, and you appear mixed up to the point of
> being a real danger, a cog in a machine which has a hidden intention to
> bring a great evil upon us all.
>
> To the extent that you are highlighting this brainwashing to us, you are
> useful to us.
>
> To the extent that you brainwash others with the same program which you
> are evidently enmeshed within, and to the extent that you support this evil
> program within others who are already brainwashed (by your words both
> denying and justifying evil), then you are acting in a way both contrary to
> your own interests, but critically, as a menace to us all.
>
> By holding so strongly to your contradictions of the basic question of
> good versus evil, Karl you demonstrate that you are quite possibly a great
> danger, a source of evil propaganda which has a "denied agenda", possibly
> not visible even to your own self, and a source of a quite sophisticated
> justification for evil acts done by others.
>
>
>
>
> Karl, I suggest you pray for redemption, and pray that your eyes and your
> conscience be opened so that you might see that which is hidden to you and
> is inside the words you are using, and pray that you see such things so
> that you might stop spreading such damaging words, and so that you might
> therefore not damage others with your confusion.
>
> If you find it difficult to pray, then find Christians who pray, and ask
> them to pray for you.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> > Death happens: the question is whether we hold it as a goal.
> >
> > It was clear in what I said that I was not sanctioning killing.
> >
> > It sounds like you are shocked or angered hearing my views of whites as
> > having a harmful way of life, and being less important to fight to
> preserve
> > due to their numbers?  Please answer this question, I am still a beginner
> > in learning to hear and understand others and need some guidance I
> > understand.
> >
> > And again Karl, when I read these words you used, I hear you sanctioning,
> > > that is justifying and almost explicitly supporting "blacks killing
> whites"
> > > for those two reasons that you cited.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Again I ask you Karl, do you wish to retract what you appear to be
> saying?
> > >
> >
> > Your words, not mine.  I murder children already myself, learning to stop
> > with this kind BLM movement as inspiration.  Saw a lot of black people
> die.
> >
> > Or, do you wish to re-word what you are saying so that it is clearer,
> > > reflecting more accurately in some way, what you're (trying to) say?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The rest of the conversation below, whether you meant it to or not,
> flows
> > > from this beginning of this conversation, and so until we get clarity
> and
> > > reach an accord or understanding of one another here at the beginning,
> then
> > > the rest will likely be, at best, talking at "crossed purposes to one
> > > another" as they say...
> > >
> >
> > This is because we have emotions, I suppose.
> >
> > >
> > > (PS, you complain at the top there, of me providing "insufficient"
> answer
> > > to one of your many unclear sentences which was at the very bottom of
> your
> > > email, yet we appear stuck at the beginning, where you have either
> > > overlooked, or perhaps not understood what I was asking you in some
> detail
> > > and clarity (see immediately below)...)
> > >
> >
> > You imply blame on me for you sticking at the beginning here.  Maybe you
> > picked up my frustration at responding to so many following things that
> > charge the emotions from a place I don't understand.
> >
> > What's relevent is that asking the question comes before stating
> > differences.  Reduces disconnection.
> >
> > > > Your almost explicit sanctioning (in the words you chose to use) of
> the
> > > > > "culling of one subgroup of our community" is abhorrent, no matter
> the
> > > skin
> > > > > colour of the sub group you target in this way.
> > > > >
> > > > > And your stated excuse that "our way of life seems harmful to me"
> can
> > > > > never ever be a sufficient excuse for the culling of ANY sub group
> of
> > > ANY
> > > > > colour.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sanction the culling of one sub group (as these words just did)
> and you
> > > > > sanction the culling of any and every sub group, i.e. everybody,
> which
> > > is
> > > > > despotism, and makes you look like a despot when you say such
> things.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > You are saying that all groups (all people) are precious, right?  I
> agree
> > > > with this strongly.  And what do you think of long term trends of
> change?
> > >
> >
> > To reiterate, I believe all groups (all people) are precious, quoted
> > above.  This clarifies my starting statement.
> >
> > >
> > > > This is one of the problems in the "Black" Lives Matter movement -
> people
> > > > > get lulled into literal extermination agendas, thinking they are
> > > signalling
> > > > > great virtue by doing so.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > This makes no sense to me.
> > >
> > > I have asked you again - see above.
> > >
> >
> > We don't want to exterminate people. <== Please reread my sentence and
> > understand it.  "We" here refers to you, and me.
> >
> > This is a connecting point between us and opens an avenue to discuss how
> to
> > work together.
> >
> > > When we sanction the murder of a sub group, we sanction the
> destruction of
> > > > > the lives of our fellow Souls, and this is a despotic position, an
> evil
> > > > > position that you appear to take (evil is that which opposes my
> life,
> > > for
> > > > > any individual value of "my").
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > By finding a shared concept between us, you are mediating.
> > > >
> > > > I do not believe in evil.  I do not believe anything opposes the
> life of
> > > > another.
> > >
> > > Bullets, when accurately shot, directly oppose the life of a human.
> > >
> > > Are you saying this is not true?
> > >
> >
> > Yes; you're focusing only on the isolated parts of the system that relate
> > to producing the death, coming out in placing human blame on a metal
> bullet
> > without context.
> >
> > > Engaging another life at all indicates value for its spirit in
> > > > some way.
> > >
> > > You said evil does not exist.
> > >
> > > You earlier said that you are personally aware of Whites shooting
> Blacks
> > > for sport.
> > >
> > > And, now you say that evil does not exist.
> > >
> >
> > I'm used to holding both of these.  It means behavior we hate can exist
> in
> > systems we love.  With some contemplation you can see they don't
> contradict.
> >
> > The fact that you say both that you are personally aware of Whites
> shooting
> > > Blacks for sport, and that evil does not exist, is very strange.
> > >
> > > As puported by you, those "Whites shooting Blacks for sport", would
> seem
> > > on any view of your assertion (presented to us with zero facts in
> support)
> > > to be a plain and simple example of some people opposing the lives of
> > > others (with such intent that they would murder them "for sport").
> > >
> > > Why do you say that your own assertion (as fact-free as it is at this
> > > point in time to me) that you know of "Whites killing Blacks for
> sport", is
> > > NOT an example of evil?
> > >
> >
> > What is evil to you?  To me it seems made up to cause war.  People who
> harm
> > just believe different things are good than we do.  Productive
> > communication both parties value and hear resolves that.
> >
> > > We must live a higher ethic collectively, and Karl, I encourage you to
> do
> > > > > so.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.  Let's archive this list on a blockchain.
> > >
> > > I think there is not a lot of benefit to doing so, and many more
> important
> > > jobs we could do anyway.
> > >
> >
> > It is great to start working with you.  What do you know to be important?
> > I make a lot of decisions based on fear of cover-up/cleanup.  I see
> > preservation as saving lives and aiding in making good decisions later.
> >
> > > > Before we came to the USA where I lived, it was covered in free black
> > > > > > people.
> > > > >
> > > > > This makes no sense to me.  I cannot understand what you are
> saying, by
> > > > > reading the words you wrote.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I wrote "lived" instead of "live".  Does that clear it up?
> Before
> > >
> > > No.
> > >
> >
> > Hrm .. is this related to China?
> >
> >
> > > > white people came to the western continent I live on, it was covered
> in
> > > > indigenous folk who had well established ways of life that mostly
> need
> > >
> > > So "indigenous folk of North America" are black, or I guess you just
> > > referred to them as black?
> >
> >
> > > There are very real and different racial issues in the USA, and I don't
> > > think conflating them is very useful.
> > >
> >
> > Seems to be to me.  African and Native people both had their aboriginal
> > cultures and histories destroyed by the urges of white people; the
> > similarity is helpful in making decisions to protect the world.  There.is
> > something about us we need.to reign in, or people die en masse.
> >
> > > large tracts of healthy wilderness in order to not die off.
> > >
> > > So, some "bad shit" has happened in the past.
> > >
> > > I agree with you.
> > >
> > > There are many examples, for example the current Australian Aborigines
> are
> > > actually from India, and only some 4000 years on this continent, before
> > > which there were an exclusively Polynesian population who were almost
> > > completely massacred into non-existence by the migrating Indians.
> There
> > > were also the smalls who lived in the Blue Mountains area West of
> Sydney,
> > > New South Wales, and they were also massacred into non existence by the
> > > present day "Aborigines" from sub continental India.
> > >
> > > Yes, some bad shit has happened and inside of humans is the capacity
> for
> > > great evil.
> >
> >
> > Here I can more agree with the word "evil" - behaviors, not people.
> >
> > Roughly, all people need to be able to live their lives.  We are asking
> for
> > ways to come together to make things right.
> >
> > We're arguing a lot as we learn to listen before ourselves expressing.
> >
> > --------- end of responses
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > We have yet to give their few remaining cultures and grandchildren
> > > > > > recompense for their genocide for us to replace their culture
> with
> > > ours.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, this is, unfortunately, very unclear, and appears to assume
> > > > > collectivist guilt (a fundamentally Marxist propaganda) and other
> > > > > communication problems.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tell me about collectivist guilt; never heard of it.  Is Marxism
> relevent
> > > > and inherently bad?  I don't know its details.
> > > >
> > > > My main point is not culling these numerous groups.
> > > >
> > > > Indigenous groups appear to struggle to survive.  Their treaties are
> not
> > > > respected.  Their land is craftily taken for profit like mining
> > > > operations.  Their people are indoctrinated to buy and consume
> things as
> > > a
> > > > new way of life.  These things are a small subset of how we are
> culling
> > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > If you wish to help heal the world, I suggest learning to speak
> (write)
> > > > > more clearly, for example, by limiting each sentence to a single
> > > concept.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure what's new to you, but I've edited some sentences to
> > > separate
> > > > things out.
> > > >
> > > > (It is a bully tactic to combine multiple unclear and unsupported
> > > concepts
> > > > > into one mashed up sentence, and for those unaware, presents too
> great
> > > a
> > > > > barrier to defend themselves, or to defend sanity, against such
> > > bullying.)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is a bad habit I have.  I used to call it oppression and avoid
> it, I
> > > > don't remember what kind.
> > > >
> > > > It seems a little helpful to bully back when there's too much,
> confusing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ====Cool sentence below====
> > > >
> > > > > Please stop using such bullying techniques.
> > > > >
> > > > ====Rad sentence above====
> > > >
> > > > <could use help stopping, save world with excess?>
> > > >
> > > > > We then went to Africa and did the same.  We have had 1 male black
> > > > > > president; my black roommate in college said his high school
> advisor
> > > told
> > > > > > him he would never be able to go to college.  Mine gave me many
> to
> > > choose
> > > > > > from.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again a mish mash of concepts and partial "non" facts - I realise
> you
> > > may
> > > > > be trying to speak from facts, but your facts are not my facts
> except
> > > that
> > > > > you slow down, presenting them in a way that others can hear, and
> > > actually
> > > > > discuss with you.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't want discussion, then again this would be your choice
> to
> > > use
> > > > > such bullying tactics.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did you say what you mean here?  It's not helpful to slow down?  What
> > > kind
> > > > of facts do you have?
> > > >
> > > > > I have been a cyberslave myself, and know some terror of running
> until
> > > > > your
> > > > > > shoes break and your feet get frostbite, to escape from an
> > > environment
> > > > > > where everybody you can reach supports you not being free.
> There are
> > > > > still
> > > > > > people who believe blacks to be slaves, and they act on their
> > > beliefs in
> > > > > > terrifying ways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are fewer black people than white people.  We need to
> protect
> > > them
> > > > > or
> > > > > > they will die off.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again you make assertions without support of facts.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Are you asking for supporting evidence to believe what I say?  If so
> it's
> > > > not hard to find and I may be able to add a little if you really
> don't
> > > > believe these things; but I am on a $20 mobile phone.
> > > >
> > > > That is a diatribe, not a conversation.
> > > > >
> > > > > You may or may not want conversation - that is a matter for you.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I feel this way about your end too.
> > > >
> > > > You might want to ground your words in truth rather than in
> propaganda.
> > > > > Without truth, how do you know whose agenda you are pushing,
> perhaps
> > > even
> > > > > thinking it is your own agenda?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what you are talking about here, and I'm irritated to
> have
> > > to
> > > > say that.  Agendas are in all of our culture.  Truth is reality
> which I
> > > > stated.  Personal reasons are also very important for me, and it
> would be
> > > > good if we could give each other the trust of relating our
> experienced
> > > with
> > > > relevent honesty.  Are you asking for evidence?  Of something in
> > > particular?
> > > >
> > > > (For one example, why are you proposing to massively increase the
> > > > > population in China of blacks, just to achieve some misguided idea
> of
> > > > > "equality in China" - do you thing the Chinese would agree with you
> > > that
> > > > > they should massively increase theil Black population so you can
> > > "appease
> > > > > your White guilt"??)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It seems.obvious to me that what you are saying here makes no sense.
> > > China
> > > > was the tiananmen thing some time ago?
> > > >
> > > > Mediation comes from my heart.  I've never been to China.
> > > >
> > > > > People talking about white racism seem to be describing minority
> > > rights as
> > > > > > unfair ... That it hurts white people to defend black people?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is so hard to learn from such a short answer.  It sounds like you
> > > > believe white people are being wiped out by black people?
> > > >
> > > > (I'm imagining a graph of population here, but I don't want to argue
> with
> > > > you when I need to learn where you come from to stop threatening your
> > > > views.)
> > > >
> > > > Karl, good communication is not easy, it takes real effort and
> practice
> > > and
> > > > > writing, and reviewing your own words and rewriting as necessary.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is so painful and reminds me of my childhood of bullying!  You
> talk
> > > > about China like it is relevent!
> > > >
> > > > What you mean to say is that both of us are rapidly learning to
> become
> > > > incredibly good communicators ;P
> > > >
> > > > But thank you I do need the pressure.  Hard next to politics.
> > > >
> > > > If you make efforts, some will assist. If you stick to cheap
> bullying and
> > > > > other tactics, little space is left for meaningful communication.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Spirit never dies.  Meaningful communication is the only thing that
> > > exists.
> > >
> >
> > - phone signature goes here
> >
> > >
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 28320 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20200803/2e026d69/attachment.txt>