[tor-dev] Cryptocurrency: Total Energy Analysis - Crypto Uses Less Than Fiat

grarpamp grarpamp at gmail.com
Mon Jun 17 13:54:50 PDT 2019

Expanding from...

On 6/17/19, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at guardianproject.info> wrote:
> I was an early proponent of crypto currencies, but now it is clear to me
> that they do more harm than good by a long shot.

Lacks specifics.

> And this is really off topic for this list.

Energy hardly off topic for Tor in general though...

If people suggest PoW to solve some Tor thing, and others
then claim something or some generic about its applicability,
others are free to further qualify what they introduced.

Cryptocurrency is actually quite green, renewable, clean
and efficient.. it must be in order to compete long term, it is
also naturally incentivized to do so, Fiat has no such care at all.

Media is well known to spew biased FUD and anti about energy,
and they link to non-comparative non-visionary research as the
whole gospel when it's clearly not.

DYOR: Even the crudest of Fermi Estimates, and lowest of
effort searches will start to turn up info therein leading to
searching out a more complete picture...


PoW can take many forms, from mechanical turk captcha brainwork,
to protein folding and other research computing, to serving dual role
as heating etc, yes even to simplistic brute force where needed.

There are many potential PoW choices and libraries out there
and coming in the future. Some hardly "damaging" or rendering
of all land, sea, and civilization to dust.

To just say "PoW bad for Tor" is a bit off, though yes if it
could be a solve, then indeed survey the choices therein.

BTW, you know there are now [PoW] cryptocurrencies and blockchains
that use operate and transport over Tor in various modes... some
exclusively within onions, others split horizon, others well documented
on how to use exits. Same with I2P and other overlay networks.

Is Tor to censor block the "non green" uses?
What about the "illicit" "harmful" uses that are in fact
less volume and incidence than even Fiat sees?

One must also know that Tor nodes and all its infrastructures from
physical to human... consumes many tanker loads of power too.
Yet who has given any open redpill non hypocritical or at least equal
finger pointing thought to analysis on any solar renewable green or
even nextgen nuke sensibility therein?

Where is the Tor relay node selection screen that lets users
select their personal choice to path only through "green" nodes?
How do users even identify and fund those nodes?
Where are the "I run / support green relay" t-shirts for those wishing
to virtue signal?
The onions used to be green, now they're purple,
purple is a strange color in nature, some hesitate on it.

Green pathing would fit right in with the overall "Anti-Sybil relay metadata,
operator WoT, badexit, and DA" research projects, choice and subscription
tool for users that has yet to be explored.

What about Tor declining money from non green, non brutal force,
and even non Proof of Bad Stake... sources and forms? Such as those
from Governments and Banks creating their Fiats for their tax inflation
theft murder war lies ops corruption and manipulation.

Given tor nodes splay across global DC's, biz, and home instead
of some of the more focused, even intentionally green, placement
of cryptocurrency nodes... an actual net analysis of an averaged 1MW
of tor versus 1MW of cryptocurrency, is likely to show Tor as "worse"...
such that betting some cyptocurrency on that would be a win.

Things, ways to create solve and live, all use energy.
Tor uses energy... watts... buildings, cars, food, services, money.

One really needs to start breaking it down to understand it all.

Thankfully cryptocurrency is forcing humanity to break it down,
and to think about and change many of the hardest walls, forces
and energies ever built and expended against them... from physical
to monetary to philosophical to political to mind control and more.

And distributed strong privacy cryptocurrency coins and
privacy networks are helping to make that happen.

Don't be afraid to burn a few watts therein.
And to design out, save, and recycle some where you can.

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