Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp

Punk punks at
Tue Jul 23 15:09:42 PDT 2019

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:22:27 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at> wrote:

> On 7/22/19, Punk <punks at> wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 01:25:26 -0400
> > grarpamp <grarpamp at> wrote:
> > 	No. My whole case is based on commodity money
> > money is not just an 'accounting system' based on 'trust'.
> > study money before talking about money.
> Then tell us, what are your complete properties of money?
> Surely not strictly a "commodity".
> What is even your definition of "commodity"?

	yes, the best money is strictly a commodity. And a commodity is a good that is common, more or less uniform, is usually produced in bulk - primary products and raw materials are the best examples of commodities. Of course not all commodities can be used as money. Some commodities have special properties like high chemical stability, divisibility and high value per mass - good example of a good with those properties is of And silver for smaller transactions and change...

	To complete the picture, the mechanism enabled by money is just BARTER but instead of being direct barter, it's a two steps process. You sell something you don't want for money (1st barter step) and you use the money to buy something you want (2nd step). See, there isn't any 'trust' or 'global accounting' involved here, nor needed.

> > 	And I'll stress again that your cryptosystems depend on hardware that is
> > currently fully controlled by your enemy, and that you don't have any way
> > and not even a plan to produce your own hardware. Apart from an idiotic
> > twatter 'hashtag' #openfabs
> People have ways and plans. What you think those tags are for but
> to troll around and see who else gets thinking and talking on
> ways and plans before developing and executing them.

	Yes and that's fine in principle although twatter as a means is less than ideal - but what I'm getting at is that currently there's little support for a project that requires lots of it. 

> Sure as hell don't see anyone talking about the subject
> from there on Perry's Censored StateCorp list, lol. Nor here.

> So why fucking bother, to be the only one with such gear? Nope.
> > 	"Cryptocurrency: Brings Down GovBankCorp"
> > 	No, it doesn't.
> Cypherpunks CryptoAnarchists seem to think it can.
> Go find and talk with them about it here.

	People believing in X doesn't mean X is true. I readily admit that one of the most basic cypherpunk premises is that certain 'tools' can be used against the state. That's an idea from the 90s that so far hasn't been too successful. So despite having 'strong encryption' and 'cheap supercomputers', what we're seeing is that tecnhocratic totalitarianism increases by the day. 

> >> Gold is at least reasonable, but is also a really fucking
> >> hard problem.
> >
> > 	still easier than 'open fabs'
> Net cost, all in, probably within same magnitude.

	you can pick gold OFF THE GROUND! Capital costs for gold mining can be effectively ZERO. Again, why and how do you think gold has been used for thousands of years? 

	On the other hand the price of a 'fab' is astronomical, but even more imporant, a 'fab' is the most sophisticated kind of factory you can think of. It's not something you can build in a garage. To manufacture chips you need access to all sorts of engineering services and raw materials which in turn require lots of capital. 

> Especially considering once competitive #OpenHW
> produced on #OpenFabs is on the market it will
> crush out closed untrustable shit. Then what
> is there to say... nothing.

	wow. yes, if you solve the problem then the problem is solved! You've 'proved' that A=A! You 'solved' the problem by wishful thinking! TAH MARKET!

> > Gold was obviously displaced because govcorp scum can't
> > print trillions of tons of gold. Not even g'ds chosen master race can do it!
> Of course. That's why cypherpunks came up with
> proof of work... 

	And what is proof of work? Oh wait, proof of work is a 'digital' equivalent of something like gold mining, except that it's arguably less efficient. 

> so long as cost of any given attack
> is greater than any sum of attackers, no such masters
> can do it.

	But the whole system is pretty fragile. When you use energy to mine gold, you get gold and gold lasts forever. Proof of work calculations on the other hand are pretty useless as a...commodity. 

> Stupid race of sheeple let gold get displaced by scum
> is another story altogether.

	I don't think it's another story. It's something that goes to the heart of the political problem so it's pretty relevant.

> > 	dude, ALL cryptocurrencies require a ledger and 100s of billions in govcorp
> > owned  'infrastructure'.
> Who do you think owns all the gold infrastructure, mining,
> shipping, storage, ledgers, exchange. 

	Same people who own all the rest of govcorp's infrastructure. Still a fair amount of people own gold, especially in places like india. 

	And by now you should have stopped making the same invalid non argument. Whatever sort of govcorp interference you can find in the gold system is WORSE in the 'digital realm' of 'high technology'.

> You think you and
> your little sack can securely hold all the gold you ever need
> in life between your legs? Your arms can securely
> aim and throw it over the hundreds of kilometres you
> might wish to send it directly to another party?

	you keep repeating the same nonsense? What do you expect apart from being called a retard? 

> Get real, dude.

	right back at you - 'high tech' makes it a lot easier for govcorp to enslave you. That's a basic political-technological fact. 

> You want to live on a farm, fuck I'll join ya,
> plow fields and some hot wives. But till then.

	till then what? Keep promoting a system that works against you? Where's the sense in that? 

> >> Cryptocurrency as prophecied by cypherpunks
> > religious fraud
> Fuck religion. Live your own.
> > 	not sure what 'cypherpunk assumption' you're referring to.
> Prerequisite assumptions for a cypherpunk cryptoanarchist cryptocurrency...
> electricity, internet, crypto

	OK so where's your anarchistic internet? And your anarchistic HW manufacturers. OK, so until you solve THOSE 'issues', your 'cypherpunk cryptoanarchist cryptocurrency' is based on flawed statist premises and  w i l l   n o t   w o r k.
	so, obviously, the problem is a general one, and attacking one single bit of it won't solve it. 

> Don't have them?... you're back to farmville.

	If you are a libertarian then you understand that farmville is infinitely better than techno global totalitiarianism. And your choice is a false one anyway. You can have electricity in farmville without the NSA. You can't have internet without the NSA. 

	I'm not being a complete luddite here. Industry can be good if used responsibly. But the current system is the exact opposite of what it should be. 

> > 	it remains way better than futuristic cryptogarbage accounting based on
> > 'faith', eh 'trust'.
> Take it up in public with the entire cryptocurrency space,
> surely they'd love to have you keynote or panel their conventions.

	Of course they wouldn't. Why would a bunch of delusional people engaged in circle jerking, and who only care about money be interested in learning a wider truth? Also, vast majority of ppl in the 'cryptocurrecny space' are anything but anarchists. 

> Bring Schiff along with you, he's a pretty cool guy
> to hang out with.

	schiff is a plutocratic asshole. Textbook case of fake libertarian. I don't care what he says about either bitcoin or gold.

> > 	enlighten me about 'safe storage' of private keys please?
> Enlighten the list about 'safe storage' of gold, please.
> Not much fucking difference.

	YEAH and that's MY point. Many of the faults you find with commodity money exist in digital money as well. Is digital money easier to transfer? Yes, but ONLY because there's massive infrastructure to enable such transfer.

> > 	kinda wondering what you mean?
> The problem is at a higher level than current
> defenses or action deployed against it.
> Sheeple need to uplevel their game if they
> expect to win it. Most don't even know how
> fucked they are.

	Completely agree. 

> > 	the stakes are not high enough?
> You know all people care about is youtube.
> No high stakes there, no free thought, no real battles being fought.

	Well yes, they don't know how high the stakes are. But reality exists independently of retards being aware of it. 


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