“Free speech is not just another value. It's the foundation of Western civilization.” - Dr Peterson

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 05:36:24PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 03:39:49AM -0300, Juan wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > “Free speech is not just another value. It's the foundation of Western civilization.” - Dr Peterson
> > 
> > 
> > 	hey Zen why do ypu keep promoting such a scumbag as peterson?
> > 	Don't you understand that he's a fraud? You should really work on
> > 	your critical thinking skills instead of being a
> > 	putin-dailystormer-peterson echo chamber. 
> 
> Happy to discuss a position, but generic handwaving doesn't move the
> conversation usefully, as far as I can tell.
> 
> That which is useful to some, may not be useful to you/ others. OK,
> but that does not stop what is useful from being useful - just like
> "all families are fascist dictatorships from which comes no good"
> is unlikely to stack up as a sane position, at least for some folks.

And anyway - what the hell is wrong with someone (in this case
Peterson), daring to suggest that the mythology of Christianity
might actually embody truths of an abstract sort which truths might
be useful to the day to day, and life in general, pursuits of a
human?

And further, daring to suggest that such abstract principles (if the
word "truth" is too much for you to stomach in a conversation which
mentions the word Christianity) have substantial overlap with
Buddhism?

And more yet, that at least some of these abstract principles appear
to have a biological emergent basis (one could say from the Darwinian
perspective) - including an emergent basis for how to define ethics -
this should I imagine be grabbed by both horns by the Sam Harris'es
of the world!  (As in, an atheist couldn't ask for much more!)

Seriously, this is very cool science, mixed into (in this case
Peterson's) psychological study of not only the biblican stories in
Genesis, but at least those stories from Genesis.

Peterson has said --so very much-- that a hand waving "he's full of
shit" just does not cut it sorry.

If you want to take Peterson down, at least attack some particular
principle you claim to be false (or as in James D's case, an example
of a position that appears to be manifestly unfair - the Lefty
Loonies have had effectively unfettered "permission" to exploit
Marxist doctrine for literally decades to smash open the Western
hierarchy/ society apple carts, and only now when the Huwaite
conservatives start to get going, Peterson turns around and says "oh
no you don't - you're not allowed to do that" - sure, can't dispute
that that's unfair, and from a practical perspective one could easily
say in response (to this unfairness position) "sure, go to it,
re-build the Huwaite tribes to the extent possible and use whatever
damn principles achieve that result" - but at least be prepared to
answer the objections raised by Peterson and his ilk :) ).

Juan, I responded to your last Peterson- (and now Zenaan- ) bashing
email, here:
https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2018-August/042914.html

Are you disputing the 300 million year basis for "dominance"
hierarchies?

What about Peterson's 'emergent basis for ethics'?

Or are you just flailing at the windmill of Peterson using the word
"Christian" in his talks?

Ball's in your court...