the tor scam - Re: AP deconstructed: Why it has not happened yet, and will not

[juan]

On Tue, 7 Aug 2018 20:42:37 -0700
Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 08/07/2018 06:14 PM, juan wrote:
> > On Tue, 7 Aug 2018 17:49:54 -0700
> > Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >>> 	for other stuff...do you have to ask? What sort of system do you think should be used for coordinating 'criminal' activity, instead of streaming super full SHD video for retards? 
> >>
> >> That's the question. 
> > 
> > 	And the answer is : some sort of 'high latency' mixing network. And interestingly enough such a network doesn't seem to exist, although it seems to me it would require less resources than something like tor. And nobody seems to be worried about having or not having that kind of  network, which strikes me as odd...
> 
> Well, as I'm sure you know, high-latency mix networks -- Cypherpunk and
> Mixmaster remailers.[0] -- predate Tor. 


	Right. In other words, the state of anonymous comms in the last 20 years has gone a long way....BACKWARDS.


> That's how I used the original
> cypherpunks list, way back when. A few years ago, I played with them a
> little. I got QuickSilver Lite running in Wine.[1] Basically, all email
> goes to alt.anonymous.messages, you download everything, and then your
> client finds stuff that you can decrypt. 

	Yes, that's a 'brute force' technique that works. Steve Kinney mentioned it as well. 



> Some resources were (are?)
> available as .onion services. I probably have notes somewhere, if you're
> interested.
> 
> I'm not sure why that all died. It _was_ bloody complicated, even with
> QuickSilver Lite. 

	Well, a few guesses : 

	1) not enough people thought it was important enough because surveillance wasn't as bad as it is today

	2) ...so the tradeoff security/usability didn't seem worthwhile

	3) those systems were displaced by worse, 'fast' solutions provided by the US military.



> Also very slow. And I can't imagine how it could have
> scaled. Although I suppose that some of the binary newsgroups did get
> pretty fucking huge. But anyway, overhead is a key problem with mix
> networks.


	That's how they work as far as I understand them. So saying it's a problem really misses the point. 


> 
> Development of the Web was part of it, I'm sure. 

	Yep. And the 'culture' behind it. Allow retards to stream super ultra SHD videos. But I wouldn't like to blame the victims too much, so of course the problem is the assholes at the top who dictate how 'technology' is developed. 



> Although I recall
> seeing a crude hack that pulled stuff from alt.anonymous.messages, and
> massaged it into a web page.
> 
> >> I guess that you say that there is none, and we
> >> should all just organize our local cells. 
> > 
> > 	What I was trying to say is that, if the use case is 'criminal activity', then using a 'low latency' network like tor which provides centralized 'hidden' services is a not a good idea. It's more like a recipe for disaster.
> 
> Well, if you exclude low-latency networks, you're pretty much left with
> nothing to use. 


	THat is not true. Although I don't know how robust it is, I think freenet comes closer to being a mix network of sorts, and it's a decentralized storage by design. See? Unlike the garbage produced by the pentagon nazis in which 'hidden' services are a hack, freenet was designed with censorship resistance as a key property. 


	But another point is, if at the moment there only are fast, low quality networks, then what's needed is...something else. 

	You keep repeating we only have tor - why? My answer is that you are just a tor propagandist which in turns makes you as US military propagandist. That's what the EVIDENCE  points to. 


> But even so, people who want anonymity, some of them
> doing illegal stuff, _will_ end up using Tor. So why not help them use
> it more safely?


	Oh, but I do. Whenver I have the chance, I tell darm markets operators to not post their contact information on facebook. 

		
	

> 
> 0) https://remailer.paranoici.org/clist.html
> 1) https://www.quicksilvermail.net/qslite/