Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Razer]

On 09/04/2017 01:06 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
> On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:
>>
>> On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>>> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
>>> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read
>>> that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  
>>
>> ... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out.
>> BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic.
>> Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.
>>
>> Rr
> Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips"
> resulting from administration of LSD 


STP was a whole 'nother thing. The 'trip' was described somewhere (I
think Abbie Hoffman in Revolution for the Hell of It) as 'long and
juiceless' ...


> in a clinical setting, which
> included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using
> very large doses.  The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild
> right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation
> domestic propaganda campaign against LSD.
>
> Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter?  Maybe not her in
> particular, on purpose.  But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took
> before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge
> stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely
> false version of what LSD is and does.
>
>> Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is
>> methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain
>> psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long
>> term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.
> When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on,
> clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful;
> they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and
> enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly.
> Their verdict was unanimous:  This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we
> does.  Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of
> War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and
> so MDMA was put on Schedule I.

It's METHAMPHETAMINE, which also has clinical uses. Raving till you chew
thru your pacifier and drop from dehydration isn't 'clinical'. Just sayin'.

I knew the people who distrubuted MDA on the East Coast in the 60s and
MDA had the same deleterious effects from long term usage. AFAICT LSD
had no effects that would be noted by psychologists or behavioral
therapists as 'deleterious'.

By 1969 or 1970, or 71, or so, most of what was passed off as LSD was
either ALD-52 or MDA, or some other designer drug. When LSD became
illegal in the US not only did the feds immediately clamp down on all
the organic resources such as Ergotamine Tartrate, indole, and other
items necessary for LSD production (A special # Sylvania blue bulb was
necessary at one point in it's manufacture. IMAGINE what would happen if
a lighting house received an oddball order for a few), as was noted at
the time in the underground newspapers, many of the supply houses WERE
THE FEDS, and they used the mailing lists quite effectively to shut down
labs.

You might want to listen to this... From one of Owsley's close personal
friends, on his passing.

March 15 2011 Travus T. Hipp Morning News & Commentary: Owsley, The Man
Who 'Changed The Minds' Of An Entire Generation... Literally... Passes
https://archive.org/details/tth_110315

Owsley wasn't a chemist you know... He was a speedfreak. His GF was an
organic chemist, and as is so succinctly pointed out here, what made
Owsley the 'name you could trust' in LSD, was he actually tried the shit
before he sold it. Most of what was passed off as L was made by scumbags
not far removed from the Mafia (Brotherhood of Eternal Light at their
former missile silo in was it Nebraska?). The Mafia LUVS chemicals. Easy
to transport unlike bulky stinky weed, and the one thing I noted in my
experience in NY, when ever you got around L dealers, you started seeing
guns, and people who looked A LOT like feds.


>
> MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety
> and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient)
> sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there."


As you described it, "empathogen,", it has certain SPECIFIC effects,
just like every other ordinary pharmaceutical, and just because you feel
all lovey dovey DOES NOT NOR HAS IT EVER MEANT, you 'explored your inner
space'. The phrase "Adjunct to Psychotherapy" come to mind. Tripping
with a bunch of people who are just like wow I love you groovy then they
go back to my day job slicing throats at some corporate hack job or
another, doesn't, and WHERE IS THE "GUIDANCE"? It's the hedonists
leading the hedonists down the rosy path to... I dunno. Running into a
fire at "burning man" or some stupid thing like that.

> I speculate that the Feds chose to suppress MDMA both because of
> unwanted macro scale social impacts, and because its obvious
> intelligence tradecraft applications (elicitation of information, agent
> development & recruitment) do not belong in "private" hands.

Torture (in 1st case), and Social engineering/subterfuge (2nd) is
cheaper and just as "reliable".

>
> Today's "ecstasy" a.k.a. X contains no MDMA but typically does contain
> amphetamine, heroin, and one or more "designer" drugs to tweak the
> experience this way or that.  


Gil Scott-Heron on Street Corner Chemistry. A short poem precedes:
https://youtu.be/78tTKTkz778?t=19m6s


I figure, even in 1968, only about half of what I ever consumed was
actually LSD, and my bottom line is I don't know why anyone would bother
with chemicals today when you can purchase 'mushrooom kits' and the seed
houses no longer give a fuck if you're buying Hawaiian Wood Rose pods or
Salvia in bulk, etc.

> Mixing that crap with alcohol can knock a
> person right down (this I have seen in real life) and respiratory arrest
> sometimes follows.
>
> :o/

The West Coast "Thing", which I never could understand, was Wine by the
gallon jug and L. No one ever suffered respiratory arrest.


Rr
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