What is the value of the State?

Steven Schear schear.steve at gmail.com
Mon May 8 15:59:11 PDT 2017


One of the best answers to this oft asked question can be found in Frank
Chudorov's, The Rise and Fall of Society. Free .pdf and .epub unavailable
at Mises.org

https://mises.org/files/rise-and-fall-society

Steve

Warrant Canary creator

On May 2, 2017 5:40 PM, "jim bell" <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* \0xDynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com>
>
> >That's some good bit o' history.
>
> It was you who asked the question "Without a State, would we have
> electronics?  Radio?"
>
> I proceeded to answer that question, and others.  You asked the history
> question, I thought the answer was obviousl.
>
> >  I was really referring to the level
> of existing order needed to create *more* levels of order.
>
> That sounds like gobbledygook to me.    What do you mean by this?  What is
> a "level of order"?  And why do you (apparently) think that government is
> somehow necessary (or even desireable) to act as a driver of technology.
> I think the opposite is true.
>
> > I don't
> think it's possible to argue with that.
>
> Until we actually UNDERSTAND what you meant, how can someone argue?
>
>
> >But I like the sentiment.  I think the problem is more than the State.
>
> What problem?  I think "the State" is the problem.
>
> >It's the pathetic infrastructure that would be an eyesore for
> centuries.
>
> States have been a "pathetic infrastructure" that has been "an eyesore for
> centuries.
>
>         Jim Bell
>
>
>
> On 5/2/17, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: \0xDynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com>
> >
> >>Without a State, would we have electronics?  Radio?
> > That's a question which displays a lack of knowledge of technical
> history.
> >  Radio transmission was known as a consequence of Maxwell's equations,
> > Maxwell's equations  .    Heinrich Hertz        Electronics can be
> traced to
> > the "Fleming Valve",  Fleming valve   the rectifying diode implemented
> using
> > the Edison effect, which was actually discovered by Frederick Guthrie.
> >  Frederick Guthrie    Shortly afterwards, Lee DeForest  Lee de Forest
> > added a grid, which made it possible for the "vacuum tube" to oscillate
> and
> > amplify, leading to radio communications.   Radio broadcasting occurred
> > BEFORE government regulation:  Arguably, the need to allow many stations
> to
> > share a limited spectrum made such regulation necessary.
> >
> >>Computers?Computers existed before IC's; I used one, the DEC PDP-7, in
> >> 1976-80.   But at about $50,000 in 1964 dollars (about $500,000 in
> >> today's), the average individual wasn't going to buy one. What we know
> >> today as "computers" was primarily the product of the invention of the
> >> integrated circuit (IC) by MOSFET - Wikipedia   various scientists and
> >> engineers. Once the concept of the  Integrated circuit existed, and was
> >> seen to follow the scaling described by Moore's law   (initially, in the
> >> 1960's, a doubling of transistors on a chip every 12 months; later in
> the
> >> 70's and 80's the doubling period lengthened to 18 months, then to 2
> years
> >> in the 1990's and later), if one transistor was possible in, say, 1961,
> 13
> >> years later 2**13 transistors (8192) was possible, in 1974.  So, the
> >> development of early microprocessors such as Intel's 8080, 6502, and
> 6800
> >> was virtually assured.  This was definitely NOT the product of
> government!
> >>  And it would have happened regardless of the "space race" of the 1960's
> >> and 70's.
> > Also, you didn't mention The Internet.  Statists are fond of suggesting
> that
> > the United States government made the Internet possible.  Well, no, it
> > didn't.  During a time in which that government was financing research,
> some
> > money was spent to develop network interface controllers Network
> interface
> > controller, which at the time typically fit into a single RETMA 19" rack.
> >  Not long afterwards, the same thing could have been (and was)
> implemented
> > by means of more modern IC's.  But at that point, "the Internet" (as we
> know
> > it, or at least knew it in 1995), was still impossible.
> > If you still doubt this, consider:  Why didn't the Internet as we know it
> > today exist in 1980?  To me, the answer is simple.  The fastest modem in
> > common use by consumers at that time was a 300 bits-per-second, Bell 103
> > (different Bell!) compatible.  Great improvements followed:  1200 bps in
> > about 1981; 2400 bps in 1983, 9800 bps in the early 1990's. Modem    I'd
> say
> > it was the latter, 9600 bps, which really made the modern Internet
> plausible
> > for the vast majority of the population.  So, it was the people who
> > developed and built 9600+bps modems that made the Internet (as we knew
> it,
> > in 1995) possible.
> >
> >>  MassTransit?
> > I think most of the New York subway systems were originally privately
> > financed and built.  Similarly, most railroads.  Similarly bus lines.
> And
> > airlines.
> >
> >> Bikes?
> >
> > BTW, you haven't forgotten that powered human flight was first
> accomplished
> > by Orville and Wilbur Wright, two bicycle mechanics.
> >>And if we need a State, what form should it take?
> >
> > Written into history books as events long past.
> >           Jim Bell
> >
> >
>
>
>
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