A raging public debate - or not - was [zen at freedbms.net: Re: republican fools]

'Zenaan Harkness' zen at freedbms.net
Tue May 2 00:29:45 PDT 2017

On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 04:35:56PM +1000, Charles Mollison wrote:
> Full marks to John Wilson!
> Such a gathering would achieve much of what Zenaan is asking for.

So you say. But do you address what is said?

> The FNR Draft Constitution was conceived over ten years by hundreds
> of ordinary Australians (no lawyers or politicians) with just such
> a gathering in mind.


Over 10 years?

Which is why all the "freedom people" I am aware of, and a few of
which I've named, all know about this "10 year effort".

YOU, Charles Mollison, are a deceiver...

> The idea was to provide a start point for discussions

...and a liar.

And I'll explain why for the benefit of those who are unable to see
your performance for what it is:

 Charles Mollison says:

 1) "This is a 10 year 'community' effort people!"

 2) "Oh we just had this idea you see, just to kick off a discussion"

But Charles, you said you started 10 years ago?

"Why yes" says Charles.

But Charles, then you say it's just an idea to kick off a community

"Why yes" says Charles.

But Charles, you say that this massive 10 year effort is only by the

"Why yes" says Charles.

But Charles, if you just wanted to kick off a discussion, why did it
take you 10 years to tell us all about it - we've all been on email
for the last 15 to 20+ years at least?

Charles: "well ... umm ... please ignore the contradiction".

You, Charles Molison, are treating us like morons, like we are
missing a brain cell or two.

You throw around an accolade or three, patting a few folks on the
back condescendingly "there, there, citizen", telling us "all your
problems will be solved with this one little thing we've done ...
whoops, sorry, did I say we? I meant, this one little thing that a
huge bunch of YOU GUYS have done over the last 10 years, even though
none of you know fuck all about it".

My, my, Charles, what big contradictory sentences you have there . . .

> and to show people like Zenaan that change for the better is
> possible without ''throwing the baby out with the bath water!"

Yes, yes Charles, we hear you loud and clear, you and your cronies
have got all the solutions to all our problems, and you have no need
to answer John Wilson, Gerrit, Stefanovski or anyone else in the
community with clear, genuine, and fundamental problems with what
you're saying, because, yes, yes Charles, that's right, this "new
constitution to solve all our problems" is not coming from you, it's
coming from us, because we all discussed it as a community over the
last 10 years Charles.

My, my Charles, what big lies you have there...

> The FNR Draft Constitution is NOT presented as the final solution.

It only took you 10 years to develop it, why the hell is it NOT a
final solution - or is it, The Final Solution from Nazi Germany to
wipe out The Jewish Problem Charles?

> It is published (at great personal expense)

Because whipping it up on a website is SOOOO expensive Charles.

Yes, yes Charles, your words make PERFECT SENSE!

> so the PEOPLE can see a whole,

Ah yes Charles, that's right Charles, you are publishing "the final
solution", so we the pathetic people can see what WE SUPPOSEDLY

If only we'd actually known that this is what we'd done in the last
10 years, then we'd all know about it already.

My, my, Charles, what PERFECT sense you make Charles!

> conclusive and totally integrated example of what could be
> achieved.

Yes, I hear you Charles, we're all so stupid that our stupid cries
for justice, for trial by jury, and for our politicians and courts to
that's why we need you, Charles, you and your cronies Charles, to
save us from our own stupidity, and so now ...

... you present ...

... your ... wait for it ... final solution!

Yes, yes, Charles, we hear you - a final, "proper" constitution,
because what we're all those stoopid founding fathers spending
countless 1000s of hours and 15+ years of conferences doing? Just who
the hell did they think they were trying to create a constitution,
they didn't know shit, that's right Charles? Yes, they had no idea
what they were doing which is why you Charles, you are your cronies

now present to us ... wait for it ... AT GREAT PERSONAL EXPENSE ...

   Dum, dah dah dahhhhhhhhhhh ..... a PROPER constitution!

But I thought it should be by the people Charles?

"That's why we're presenting it to you now, fool" sayeth Charles.

But, I thought you said we already all talked and discussed about it
over the last 10 years Charles?

"Why yes, yes I did say that" sayeth Charles.

And you keep a straight face Charles?

"Why yes, yes I do" sayeth Charles.

> And so that the PEOPLE have a basis on which to conduct a
> fruitful discussion.

So "we the community" spent the last *** 10 years !! *** discussing
this draft constitution, so the we "the PEOPLE" (according to you)
can have a basis on which to "conduct a fruitful discussion", because
if you had not come up with a draft upon which we could conduct a
fruitful discussion, we plebian PEOPLE are so bloody stupid, we could
not hope to have a "fruitful discussion".

My, my, Charles, what condescending words and lusciously
contradictory logic you have there Charles...

> One thing is for sure and that is that nothing will change while
> every man and his dog is offering up partial solutions and every
> other man and his dog is tearing him down.

Well Charles, one thing is for certain and that is that nothing will
change while men such as yourself proclaim to act in service to the
community whilst speaking condescendingly to us "community" and lying
your face off whilst you do it.


> I started on this journey more than 20 years ago and the reason I
> have been quiet of late is because I got sick of the bickering
> between activists who SHOULD be pulling together.

And I s'pose you wonder why the PEOPLE don't flock to your glorious

It surprises my why they don't Charles, it really surprises me...

I'm sure John, Jim, Gerrit and the rest are just kicking themselves
that they all missed out on your glorious "community consultations"
to create a "proper constitution" that you made (you or the people
Charles?) at "great personal expense to yourself".

Well, well, Charles, what a wicked web you weave...

> I am prepared to forward a complimentary, hard copy of the Draft
> Constitution to anyone in this discussion at my own expense. Just

Trying to save face now?

How about you own up to your egotistical bullshit first, apologize
profusely, and stop speaking so condescendingly to us all?

How does that sound as a face saving gesture?

> send me an address. The only cost to you is that I ask you to get
> back to me with what you don't like about it and why!

So you and your worldly "Lords" can come back and present "The
people's constitution" that you now spent "20 years" preparing, ahem,
that the people spent preparing?

Please, Charles, what do you take us for?

Evidently you take us for fools.

As some might, for some random unknown reason, think to say, "take a
hike, Charles".

I dunno, some might think to say that. I don't know why, it just sort
of randomly springs to mind...

Victoria, South Australia

> Charles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Wilson [mailto:jhwilson at rightsandwrong.com.au] 

More information about the cypherpunks mailing list