A raging public debate - or not - was [zen at freedbms.net: Re: republican fools]

[Zenaan Harkness]

This should have had Subject: "part 1" sorry...

Also, this part 1 for some strange reason failed to appear...
Z


On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 01:09:07PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> The eternal vigilance we must display when we have relatively solid
> foundations, as we do in Australia notwithstanding the mostly self
> serving corrup politicians and other power brokers, is notable.
> 
> At least once a year, those behind the scenes to to fuck us over in
> Australia, with deceptive and undermining "public discourse".
> 
> And roughly every 10 to 20 years, TPTB actually run a referendum to
> try to turn Australia into a republic, on one or another "emotive,
> politically correct, hot social topic of the day" such as:
> 
>  - "recognizing" Aboriginals in the constitution so the parliament
>    can pass laws specifically about them (pro- or anti-) thus
>    instituting a constitutionally racist regime
> 
>  - getting rid of "the Queen" or "the Crown" or "the Monarch" as head
>    of state because "surely we got ta have an Australian as head of
>    state" (the current topic du jour), which is hogwash, since the
>    ultimate Australian head of state is only titular anyway (i.e.
>    holding no significant power except some power to declare war,
>    which has always been left to our parliament anyway)
> 
>  - turning us into a republic, because "republics are wonderful, just
>    look at America"
> 
> 
> In all cases, the public discourse as lead by TPTB is deceptive and
> highly narrow - the LEGAL foundations within our current system/
> federal Australian constitution, are always ignored (except that we
> in the public open our eyes to the deception and have the
> conversation we need to have), such as the following legal
> foundations:
> 
>  - invocation of the Blessing of Almighty God
>    (legally, a GREAT foundation to have in any constitution)
> 
>  - the Crown/ the parliament of the UK
>    (legally good for us since it brings in Magna Charta, Bill of
>    Rights (old English/imperial bill of rights - i.e. William and
>    Mary Cess.) and other imperial legislation some of which is
>    absolutely in our interests as individual humans within Australia.
> 
> 
> Alas, the powers that be don't like the fact of the existence of the
> Blessing of Almighty God at the foundation of our Australian federal
> Constitution!
> 
> They also don't like the fact that our forefathers discussed in the
> constitution debates, and specifically spoke "the supreme absolute
> and uncontrollable authority remains with the people".
> 
> 
> And so, as to be expected, The Powers That Be continue to try to
> undermine these (by any modern standards) very good, foundations that
> we have in Austalia.
> 
> Regards,
> Zenaan
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> -----
> 
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: Charles Mollison <cobbscrossing at bigpond.com>
> Cc: 'John Wilson' <jhwilson at rightsandwrong.com.au>, 'Doug Harrison' <dougharrison1950 at gmail.com>, 'RAY PLATT' <rayplatt at iinet.net.au>, 'Rena Iliades' <facrena at gmail.com>, 'Bev'
> 	<lbpattenden at bordernet.com.au>, 'Mark B' <underthewire4me at gmail.com>, cppeele at mindspring.com, debitax at yahoo.com.au, darryl.o at hotmail.com, davedale at iprimus.com.au, dpringle at alphalink.com.au,
> 	'Peter Lindsay' <ewenme.lindsay at gmail.com>, 'Mark Filby' <markfilby at hotmail.com>, flora at reachnet.com.au, 'Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka' <inspector_rikati at yahoo.com.au>, grandduchy at hotmail.com,
> 	gregcadwallader at hotmail.com, 'George Gault' <georgegault4 at gmail.com>, 'Jim' <jim.sovereign at optusnet.com.au>, johng444 at bigpond.com, 'Jim MacLeod' <jim.macleod at nor.com.au>, 'JohnV'
> 	<jvella at dodo.com.au>, knowyourrights at ratfm.com, lyn at aldoda.com, marsiergn2000 at yahoo.com.au, nmaine at bigpond.net.au, ozliberatas at skymesh.com.au, peterforde at ozunited.com, "'Us @ SumOfUs'"
> 	<us at sumofus.org>, andrew at colonialleather.com.au, timbodedidlio at gmail.com, beatonmydrum1 at aol.com, fenja_schulze at yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 12:44:52 +1000
> Subject: Re: republican fools
> 
> On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 11:16:39AM +1000, Charles Mollison wrote:
> > We would all do well to take note of John Wilson’s wise words here below.
> > 
> > However, a new Constitution could fix all these problems if it is
> > properly drafted. (Whether or not it be for a Constitutional
> > Monarchy OR a Democratic Republic.)
> 
> Please stop spreading such rubbish!
> 
> Per the Quick and Garran annotations and the foundational hansard
> conferences and debates:
> 
> "The supreme absolute and uncontrollable authority remains with the
> people."
> 
> Those who push for change are failing to see that we in Australia,
> 
>  already have one of the finest constitutions, IN THE WORLD!
> 
> 
> We cannot grant to ourselves MORE authority than we, the people, are
> already declared to have, by our CURRENT constitution.
> 
> 
> The ONLY problems are that people DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH, they don't
> know what we already have, such as we already have a Bill of Rights!!
> 
> (The old English bill of rights - William and Mary Cess.)
> 
> 
> ALL we have to do is start LIVING the rights we already have.
> 
> 
> The current foundation of our federal constitution in Australia is
> about as good as it gets, for us/ we the people.
> 
> Sure, there are a FEW relatively minor areas for improvement, but ANY
> MAJOR CHANGE will all but certainly DESTROY the incredibly powerful
> and protective foundations that we already have.
> 
> 
> Your words "a new Constitution could fix all these problems" are
> deceptive.
> 
> Your deceptive words might be deceptive due to a need for
> understanding on your part. I hope that's the only reason you are
> spreading deceptive words.
> 
> Your words suggesting a "Democratic Republic" would be acceptable are
> also deceptive - "Whether or not it be for a Constitutional
> Monarchy OR a Democratic Republic."
> 
> 
> Charles Mollison, please STOP using deceptive words.
> 
> As Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka, Jim Stephanovski, Malcolm McClure, Joyn
> Wilson and many others have said, CORRECTLY I add:
> 
>  A republic puts the parliament OVER we the people!
> 
> 
> When you suggest or imply in your words to people that a republic is
> a reasonable option, you are making a false and or deceptive
> suggestion to people.
> 
> Please STOP making false and deceptive suggestions to people.
> 
> 
> Another awesome foundation in our CURRENT constitution, just another
> of the reasons we have one of the greatest constitutions in the
> world, is that our Australian federal constitution affirms at its
> foundation, the Blessing of Almighty God.
> 
> This affirmation that our constitution is founded "humbly relying on
> the Blessing of Almighty God" is one of the most powerful legal
> foundations that we can, individually, rely upon, in the courts in
> Australia!
> 
> This Blessing of Almighty God, as it is SPECIFICALLY AFFIRMED AND
> WORDED/ CONSTRUCTED in our Australia federal constitution,
> 
> 
> Fellow Australians, let's PROTECT the awesome LEGAL FOUNDATIONS in
> our current Australian federal constitution!  Let's protect those
> great affirmations and legal constructions in the very foundation of
> our Australian constitutional monarchy which our forefathers so
> wisely handed to us on a silver plate!
> 
> 
> Let us continue to remind those who misrepresent the truth of our
> powerful Australian constitutional monarchy - powerful for we the
> people, powerful legal foundations, humbly affirming the sovereignty
> of we the people as ABOVE the parliaments and bloody and
> opportunistic politicians who want MORE authority, which they can
> only take from us by DESTROYING those foundations that we already
> have in our existing Australian federal constitution!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > The Foundation for National Renewal has drafted such a new
> > Constitution. It is available from FNR at cobbscrossing at bigpond.com
> > <mailto:cobbscrossing at bigpond.com> . ($10 plus P&P). Although only
> > a draft, we believe it has answers for all the warnings John Wilson
> > raises in his article below. 
> 
> Your approach is opportunistic.
> 
> Your requirement for money to engage in any such conversation is
> fundamentally at odds with the modern reality.
> 
> Your implication of "special authority and insight" from yourself and
> or those you associate with is ABSOLUTELY OBJECTIONABLE!
> 
> How DARE you assert (by implication or otherwise) to the rest of us
> that we cannot think for ourselves, or cannot engage fully in the
> very foundation of EVERY conversation potentially affective our
> future!
> 
> How dare you use deceptive, condescending and fundamentally
> undermining words!
> 
> 
> Your approach is fundamentally wrong, deceptive and flawed.
> 
> 
> And the biggest joke is that even the attachments you send have major
> problems, and you are probably so unaware as to realise what those
> problems are.. it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
> 
> 
> 
> > Check it out.
> 
> At least the subject is appropriate - "republican fools" indeed.
> 
> 
> Charles Mollison your foundations are flawed, your execution is
> flawed, and the words you continue to use are deceptive!
> 
> 
> Your intentions may be good, in which case you have much to learn,
> and I implore you to please stop using words which deceive our fellow
> Australians and encourage the ignorant to walk in directions which
> are absolutely detrimental to our common individual and shared
> collective authority and well legal being!!
> 
> If you are truly sincere, please read some of Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka's
> books, or some of Andrew Moyles letters and court submissions, or
> damn, read some of our existing federal constitution!
> 
> If you are truly sincere, you would have involved yourself in the
> various discussions that happen in our community in last two decades!
> But we have not seen you be involved.
> 
> - When Gerrit was in court, Charles where were you with your support
>   and review of his documents? 
> 
> - When Mr Moyle was supporting others in court, where were you
>   Charles with your support?
> 
> - When Mr Stefanovski brought to our attention the court cases of
>   fellow Australians, when Mr Wilson and his crew were in court and
>   beating the "trial by jury" drum,
> 
>   WHERE WERE YOU Mr Charles Mollison?!!
> 
> - and dozens of other examples ...
> 
> 
>  Charles, you prance onto the scene, charging for some "new solution
>  to all our problems", made by folks who you imply "know how to
>  PROPERLY draft a constitution", SO MUCH BETTER than the dozens of
>  men and women and 100s if not 1000s more behind the scenes who
>  drafted our current constitution over 100 years ago - and you expect
>  us to run along with your implication that "BAH! What would all
>  those founding fathers know! They were so stooopid they did not even
>  know how to PROPERLY draft a constitution!"
> 
> The conceit and pride you have just displayed Mr Charles Mollison!
> 
>  "Oh what would 100s of founding fathers diligently meeting
>   and discussing over 15 years even know!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only real problem is the ratbags getting elected, good people
> failing to stand for election and failing to unite with other good
> people, those in power who abuse their power (regardless of what any
> "constitution" says), and the lack of education of our fellow
> Australians about our awesome foundations and how to use those
> foundations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   WE NEED A NEW CONSTITUTION LIKE WE NEED FLOURIDE IN OUR WATER.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A shout out to all those who who stand and solid foundations,
> including:
> 
> - Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka, valiantly and consistently defending the
>   true foundations of our excellent federal constitution
> 
> - Malcolm McClure, who tought me and many others the value of
>   standing on solid foundations of our constitution, Magna Carta,
>   Bill of Rights and more, in the courts
> 
> - John Wilson, religiously beating the drum on the importance of our
>   CONSTITUTIONAL foundation of trial by jury and its eminent remedial
>   utility
> 
> - Jim Stefanovski, steadfastly engaging us all in the public
>   discourse, making valiant individual stand, and providing moral
>   support to others who try to stand as well
> 
> - Andrew Moyle, ever vigilant on our Australian foundations and
>   supporting those he can
> 
> 
> There are so many others, many still with us, still standing and
> still speaking out well and strong like Ray Platt, and others who
> have gone before and, who made incredible stands, true credits to
> Australia as a nation.
> 
> 
> Let's all do a little bit more, perhaps read one foundation document
> (or section) per month that we have not yet read, perhaps giving
> moral support to those who make a true stand (as best we can
> ascertain individually), and let us be eternally vigilant against the
> forces of deception and destruction, against those conversations and
> against those actions that would and do undermine us, undermine our
> fellow Aussies, and undermine the very foundations which are good and
> wholesome and which have proven the test of time DESPITE far too many
> ratbags getting into power just to serve themselves and their
> crony mates!
> 
> 
> Eternal vigilance fellow freedom fighters - eternal vigilance.
> 
> 
> Respectfully to all those who uphold our truly good and wholesome
> foundations in our Australian federal constitution, our
> "constitutional monarchy",
> 
> Zenaan Harkness,
> Victoria, Australia
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----