What is consensus?

Mirimir mirimir at riseup.net
Tue Dec 12 17:10:14 PST 2017


On 12/11/2017 08:10 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> 
> 
> On 12/10/2017 01:06 PM, g2s wrote:
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
>> Date: 12/10/17 8:02 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: cypherpunks at lists.cpunks.org
>> Subject: Re: What is consensus?
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 07:42:02AM -0800, g2s wrote:
>>> Consensus is defined as agreement. Voting is one process to
>> (hopefully) reach it.
>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consensus
>>
>>
>> lol
>> "If voting could change things, it would have been outlawed." -- anon
>>
>> Just check what fucks were elected by voting all over the world.
>>
>> I was NOT making an argument that voting works to change anything
>> systematic in media driven indoctrinated societies. I was simply
>> defining the word... further consensus Agreement doesn't always work
>> either, but if the "block" is honored it slows down the process and has
>> potential for correcting mistakes that may be harder to repair after the
>> fact.
> 
> Re "What is consensus?" Mirmir replied "Ask any Quaker."
> 
> That's me, and I am now required (dammit) to give a straight answer
> because I'm a Friend in good standing, a "made guy" so to speak.

Thanks, Steve :)

> The quote from Georgi above seems to be part of the original thread so
> at least there's a context to answer the question in.
> 
> Consensus means agreement.  And that means a messy, organic, all too
> human hairball at work.  The Quakers are often accused of governing
> themselves by consensus, and have been so accused for something
> approaching 400 years.  Here's how we do it, more or less.
> 
> Disclaimer:
> 
> The following is not the "rules of RSOF engagement," so much as my own
> observation of Friends' process, developed from 20+ years of full
> participation, including lots of committee work for my monthly and
> yearly Meetings.  I do push the Gospel of Truth in the manner of
> Friends, promoting the religious practice that makes Friends "a peculiar
> people" - which, back in the day, meant a "distinct" group.
> 
> In practical application among Friends, consensus arises from local
> communities, small enough that everyone is at most at one remove in
> acquaintance from one another.  Friends participate, first and foremost,
> in an agreement among themselves to work together in compliance with a
> specified process for decision making.
> 
> When geographically dispersed Friends participate in regionally
> sponsored projects (and we do, non-stop), representatives selected by
> participating Meetings form committees; these committees execute the
> same consensus procedure to arrive at their recommendations to the
> regional body as a whole.  No decision on matters of faith and practice
> or Meeting business becomes "binding" without advice and approval from
> Meeting as a whole.
> 
> Quakers don't do "consensus" as that word is understood in a secular
> context.  We make decisions based on "a sense of the Meeting," and we
> call the process for that discernment.  Any Friend who has had Quakerism
> 101 understands that we are discerning the will of God, most properly so
> in silence broken only by vocal ministry as so led; having found that,
> the next step is to seek "way forward" toward compliance with our orders
> from the head office.
> 
> Friends do present a peculiar position on God, this time in the modern
> sense of the word peculiar.  Weighty Friends (made gals and guise who
> may speak rarely but do command attention, for reasons) have long
> agreed:  Nobody can define or describe God.  But whatever that word
> stands for, we know it when we see it in motion, and accept that once
> set on a path by that force, one must do /something/ regardless of
> personal preferences or interests.
> 
> "Friends don't vote," but we do discriminate:  Membership in our Society
> is accomplished by a consensus between oneself and the local Meeting's
> membership at large - there's a formal process for that, and new or
> transferred members are recorded or "minuted" as such by the clerk of
> their Meeting.  Roles such as Clerk of Meeting, Trustees, etc. will
> nearly always be filled by members of Meeting, as will committees that
> engage in pastoral counseling where confidentiality issues may arise.
> All other committees are wide open for any member or attender to sit in
> on.
> 
> Friends normally meet weekly for meeting for worship, and monthly for
> "meeting for worship with a concern for business," which is open to all.
>    Committees report to the latter meeting on a monthly basis, but
> otherwise work where and as expedient.
> 
> It can take Friends half of forever to get anything outside of
> established routine done, but what we do sticks.  Conversely, when a
> situation requires it Friends form and operate voluntary organizations
> in near real-time.  Friends' Service Committees have crossed active
> battlefields in caravans carrying relief supplies to besieged civilians,
> literally using their religious authority and single-minded commitment
> as their only shield and weapon.
> 
> Friends enjoy a certain notoriety for tolerance, but not the usual kind
> where someone is "tolerated" for the sake of appearance or process
> compliance:  Every "sinner" is welcome, and as living proof one could
> point to several committed atheists who rate as 'weighty' Friends in the
> community.
> 
> Disclaimer II:  The above is presented as a resource for anarchists and
> other loose ends looking to mine historical and (in effect) covert
> examples of social organization for background, and any components that
> can be usefully recycled.  No warranty of fitness for use for any
> purpose is expressed or implied.
> 
> Especially beware, the real life Religious Society of Friends lives up
> to the bare bones description above "on a good day".  In addition to
> routine errors routinely corrected, on occasion a Meeting or responsible
> Committee may go off-track and require correction from the floor, so to
> speak.  I am not supposed to know that a Meeting may occasionally "lose
> its minutes" covering periods of time when scandalous events were afoot,
> and neither are you.
> 
> We get a lot of lookey-loos, typically people who see the RSOF as an
> elite family-friendly social club for liberal academics and
> professionals.  Some of them even settle in and convert, to the full
> extent they are so led.
> 
> BTW, Quakers are "Friends of Jesus" [John 15:14-16] first and foremost,
> and friends of each other by virtue of that relationship.
> 
> Thus ends St. Erroneous' Epistle to the Cypherpunks.
> 
> I leave you with this prophesy:  Many things shall come to pass, yea
> verily shall many things come to pass.
> 
> :o)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



More information about the cypherpunks mailing list