What is the value of the State?

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 12:58:31AM +0000, \0xDynamite wrote:
> >> This seems like a lame question, but What is the value of the State?
> >
> > Centralisation of power.
> 
> You can have a socialist state without centralization.

You're presuming value in "socialist state".

When I said "one of the benefits of The State is centralisation of
power" I was being ironic/sarcastic - apologies for the confusion, I
was hoping my point suggesting our overwhelming need for
internalisation of authority would set the record straight on
"centralised authorities amassing power".


> > A sense of safety/security for sheeple.
> 
> But the state also makes insecurity:  bigger wars, for example.

Exactly - that's why it's only a sense of safety "for sheeple". They
don't think beyond "muh feels" and so don't see the irony in their
implicit, rarely ever spoken feeling of "the state is good because it
provides me security".


> >> Without a State, would we have electronics?  Radio? Computers?  Mass
> >> Transit?  Bikes?
> >
> > Yes. Absolutely yes.
> 
> How does anarchy provide the high-level of organization needed to
> produce a car?

Humans have this funny habit of organising themselves, through
conversation into action, to meet actual needs or desires. "Social
animals" and all..

Seriously, the problem is not, has never been and never will be, lack
of self-interest motivation to create trinkets and "wealth", sadly.

The real question is whether our collective overwhelming existential
desires are better put in their place in political anarchy, or
political state of some form.

The state, implying and indeed exercising coercion of lesser
("tolerable to many") and greater (tyranny by any standard) degrees,
attracting sociopaths, evidently and unequivocally devolves to
despotism.

So I don't think we have much of an option at this point. We HAVE to
try something other than The State.


> From ore, to smelting steel, to engineering, to
> molding, to paints, batteries, upholstery and textiles, etc?

If asking this question in sincerity, a superficial (almost trivial)
answer could be "well we've already got that shit, we don't need no
stinkin state to keep making them!"

BUT, such a superficial quip is likely counterproductive, since it
papers over the fundamental misunderstanding of human nature,
creativity and capacity, -and- leads to shitty rubbish retorts like
"well it's just as well we had The State for the last 5K years then
isn't it dumbass!?" which is rubbish, and nothing but
misunderstanding.

HTH clarify things..