[WAR] US government set on complete destruction of Ukraine

[Razer]

On 09/26/2016 12:35 PM, Sean Lynch wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Razer <rayzer at riseup.net
> <mailto:rayzer at riseup.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     On 09/26/2016 10:54 AM, Sean Lynch wrote:
> 
>     >
>     > "the UKRAINIANS HAVE ASKED FOR HELP."
>     >
> 
> 
>     Diem 'asked for help' too!
> 
>     Remember?
> 
>     Now remember how he was installed. By the US.
> 
> 
> You claim he was "installed," yet clearly not acting in the US's
> interest.



I got to right... there. And I stopped. He just wasn't the right guy for
the job so they killed him and installed someone else.Ky, who last I new
lived in SoCal, got death threats all the time and didn't understand
why... As his ex-ARVN thugs were doing military-style home invasion
robberies in the SF Bay area whose victims wouldn't talk to the police,
who couldn't protect them and they knew it...

Of COURSE he was acting in a manner more suitable to the US. The option
was... Horrors! Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, and the *Terror* of SE Asian Com Com
Communism!

Rr


 Why might that be? Perhaps because he wasn't actually
> "installed" as people generally think of it, or perhaps because Putin
> bought him back from the US?
> 
>     So were the Ukraine coup-plotters. Couldn't have done it without the US
>     State Dept Victoria Nuland, and Soros organizations as point man/Bag
>     man. After that was all said and done THEN the Pentagon and State
>     Department cold send SEALS to train the 'Azov Batallion', and other
>     Neonazi formations that ARE part of the Ukraine military.
> 
> 
> You say coup, I say revolution. And the Russians call everyone they
> don't like Neonazis. I'm sure some of them are, but Russia is not
> exactly in a position to throw stones. Neither side is populated with
> angels.
>  
> 
>     The methods for overthrowing governments and suppressing the captive
>     populations haven't changed since the beginning of the industrial
>     revolution or farther back. They've just been more exposed, so the lies
>     get thicker.
> 
>     The elected government of Ukraine NEVER asked for US assistance.
> 
> 
> I love your careful phrasing there. I said "Ukrainians" and you
> responded with "elected government of Ukraine." Of course the "elected
> government of Ukraine" didn't officially ask for assistance. I'm not
> sure what "elected" even means in Ukraine, what with 123% of registered
> voters turning up in Sevestapol to vote to secede. But as we all know
> Russia NEVER interferes with elections.
> 
> The US is not innocent here, but attempting to play Russia off as "the
> good guy" or even "better" in any respect other than their vastly lower
> capabilities is just laughable. The only thing they have going for them
> is that they're not the US and can form a counterbalance. Which is not
> exactly a high bar.
> 
>     Stop lying.
> 
> 
> Not particularly helpful language when you're trying to tease apart a
> very complex situation. But perhaps that's not what you're actually
> trying to do.
>  
> 
> 
>     Rr
> 
> 
>     > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net <mailto:zen at freedbms.net>
>     > <mailto:zen at freedbms.net <mailto:zen at freedbms.net>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     So the US government appears set on complete destruction of
>     Ukraine.
>     >     Doesn't even make strategic sense at this point. I guess
>     unless you're
>     >     an essentially evil Western oligarch who wants to carve it up for
>     >     purchase on the cheap, the people, the Russians, and the world be
>     >     damned.
>     >
>     >
>     >     USA congress, your insanity and evil is noted. Once again,
>     your broad
>     >     scale fundamental compromise and therefore essential
>     illegitimacy, is
>     >     noted by the rest of the world.
>     >
>     >     Let's see if this is stopped or passed by the USA senate and
>     president.
>     >
>     >
>     > So what you're saying is that, if you get mugged on the street and the
>     > mugger has a gun to your head, then any attempt to resist the mugger
>     > means you are suicidal, and anyone who tries to help you is dead
>     set on
>     > your destruction? Great logic, there.
>     >
>     > One could just as easily turn this around and say that Putin is
>     dead set
>     > on Ukraine's destruction because he won't allow the Ukrainians to
>     > determine their own destiny. Even if you were to assume that all his
>     > lies about not sending in Russian troops and equipment (almost
>     certainly
>     > engineered to be precisely accurate under a very narrow definition of
>     > same and only if you squint in the right way) were true, he is
>     certainly
>     > encouraging the Russian thugs living there to engage in as much
>     violence
>     > as possible.
>     >
>     > No, this is Putin's baby. He's set it up so that if he can't have
>     > Ukraine, nobody will. And the poor Ukrainians are caught in the
>     middle,
>     > just as they always have been because of their unfortunate geographic
>     > situation next to a violent, ultranationalist neighbor. Violent and
>     > ultranationalist according to Zenaan himself, by the way, who just
>     told
>     > us that Putin is the most moderate person the Russians could have
>     elected.
>     >
>     > The US is helping Ukraine because the UKRAINIANS HAVE ASKED FOR
>     HELP. If
>     > the situation is truly as you claim it is, then why isn't it just
>     > "better to die on our feet than live on our knees?" Perhaps the
>     > Ukrainians are simply tired of living in Russia's shadow and are
>     > terrified of the strongman the Russians have elected?
>     >
>     > As you know, I'm no fan of US foreign policy, but Russia is no better.
>     > As far as I can tell, you only like them because you hate the US so
>     > much, and the Russians are the only reasonable counterbalance you can
>     > think of. I totally agree with you on the need to return to a
>     > multi-polar world, just not because I think the Russians are any
>     better
>     > than the US. They're just DIFFERENT and can force the US to
>     compromise.
> 
>