[WAR] ...

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 01:59:16PM -0700, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
> On 9/1/16 1:35 PM, juan wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 13:21:19 -0700
> > "Stephen D. Williams" <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/1/16 1:16 PM, juan wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 12:34:53 -0700
> >>> "Stephen D. Williams" <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Our
> >>>> political system limits and weeds out crazy, preventing it from
> >>>> taking over.  
> >>> 	The US is full of crazy fucks like you, and of course the %
> >>> of crazy fucks among politicians, military murderers and the
> >>> 	corporate mafia is even higher. 
> >>>
> >> Says one of the craziest people most of us know.
> >>
> >> You have a loose definition of crazy.  Or a crazy definition of crazy.
> >>
> >> But I'll ask anyway: What's your evidence?
> >
> > 	Reality. And reality is exactly what crazy people have problem
> > 	grasping. 
> 
> My reality is more real, and therefore more correct, than your reality.

All you're saying is that you guys, aka those wielding power in the CIA
and the USA govt, wield power and can make these power maximisation
decisions irregardless of what some "regular" folks might want, or
expect.

And that's true - what you imply is absolutely true, so on this count,
> Prove me wrong.
is not going to happen. Of course.


> So, let's go back to my statement:
> "Our political system limits and weeds out crazy, preventing it from
> taking over."
> 
> Prove that isn't true.

To we common folk heathen plebes, the USA government, and in particular
you CIA guys, have lost the plot, and continue to act and justify and
discuss and qualify, many and varied forms of crazy.


> Especially prove that it isn't true for Americans.

Perhaps you are conflating "crazy" with "those who are not supportive of
the establishment".

Because if your point is just "we have some historical stability in the
USA", that is indisputable.


But I know the grand game - and those who truly pull the strings are
wont to play it hard, they place all chips on the table.

Sometimes that gamble "pays off" (for some crazy definition of pays
off), and sometimes history shows us a grand correction.


Your pay masters have overplayed their hand this time.



> The US government kept functioning normally even through a civil war,
> world wars, 3 industrial revolutions, all kinds of corruption, etc.
> Here, I'm not talking about exceptionalism in general, just the point
> that if crazies make it into power, they are limited and don't last.
> Point out a better system.  (The British are said to no longer be
> making fun of our political system as of Brexit. ;-) )

There are so many areas for improvement, it is not funny that you ask
this question.

What you, your team mates and your pay masters really ought to start
doing is assessing your internal fear programs, your attachment to power
and control, and figure out how to demonstrate a little more faith in
other humans and some trust in life generally.

>From an internal space of calm and understanding, decisions and public
conversations which are not seen by 'us plebes' as crazy, may be able
to be had.


> I don't have time to get into it, but I think that the exceptionalism
> perception, the quality of it, meaning, and use, is overblown in some
> key ways.  We have evidence that certain things work and certain
> things don't.  There is a big interplay with culture and back stories
> that affect some of that, but most of it could transfer anywhere.

It is alluring to buy in to the "superiority" dialogue.

And statistics can prove anything. "The mind is the great trickster" and
all that...

But regardless of any particular data points "proving" "superiority",
what are we without empathy?

What are we when all we have is callous conversations which disregard
the humanity of unique individuals - including those brown folks with
their children, brides to be, fathers and cousins, which y'all droning
to death every day?


> Maybe we're confused sometimes,

You are confused why? Because you persist in psycopathic conversations -
i.e. in justifying power maximisation, apologising for abject abuses,
watering down reality of your wars with "just some war-like actions,
nothing to see here folks, move along".


Of -course- you are confused - you have no ethical foundation which is
visible.


> but we have open debate to try to fix
> that.

Fail to fix your lack of a visible ethical foundation, and you will
absolutely fail to fix anything (from we pleebles perspective).



> We regularly fix things that aren't working with only things
> like rights as being inviolable.  It isn't 'we are Americans and
> therefore you suck'.  It is more like "we have this cool open source
> government project, why not fork it and see if it works for you better
> than that old governmentware you're running".

Unfortunately it never has actually been like that - it all cases since
WW2 it has been "we are America, our 'democracy' is superior, and you
gonna take it deep down the throat, refuse? OK, we fuck you up,
seriously".


THAT is a far cry from "see if it works for you"!


This is another of those little things you guys really ought to change -
use language which matches reality. Otherwise we keep seeing y'all as
absolutely fucken crazy!


> We are tired of being
> asked to fix your old broken down governmentputer because you insist
> on running VMS and Windows.

Hey, we designed Linux and you're insisting on proprietary installs all
over the place - ramming it down everyone's throats.

That aint what we want, nor what we designed!


> Or your cousin's obsolete system because
> you can't support them well.

That's where we really should say "here's a system, here's our
recommendations, if you formally publicly ask for help in a way
compatible with your people, we shall help".


Sadly, that's not what you folks been doin.


> Or whatever.  If you can make it work,
> then do it.  Otherwise, upgrade.

We see no upgrade in your offerings.

We have upgrades, they're libre, they're straightforward, but we cannot
even begin the conversation because you persist with damaging
psychopathic conversations which destroy our trust in you and
demonstrate (in our minds at least) that you do not care for us. Any of
us.


I'm not even American and I feel that. And the American people - they're
YOUR people, your distant relatives! And you treat them so badly, dum
them down so persistently, feed them crap (information), and then go and
accuse them of failing to make it work?

Where is the chance of that?


You've created one hell of a mess, effectively completely done over,
abused and isolated your own people.


For those with a good heart, you have one hell of a big healing and
fixing job coming up. May be start planning...