[WAR] ...

Stephen D. Williams sdw at lig.net
Thu Sep 1 14:52:17 PDT 2016


On 9/1/16 2:28 PM, juan wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 13:59:16 -0700
> "Stephen D. Williams" <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/1/16 1:35 PM, juan wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 13:21:19 -0700
>>> "Stephen D. Williams" <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/1/16 1:16 PM, juan wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 12:34:53 -0700
>>>>> "Stephen D. Williams" <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Our
>>>>>> political system limits and weeds out crazy, preventing it from
>>>>>> taking over.  
>>>>> 	The US is full of crazy fucks like you, and of course the
>>>>> % of crazy fucks among politicians, military murderers and the
>>>>> 	corporate mafia is even higher. 
>>>>>
>>>> Says one of the craziest people most of us know.
>>>>
>>>> You have a loose definition of crazy.  Or a crazy definition of
>>>> crazy.
>>>>
>>>> But I'll ask anyway: What's your evidence?
>>> 	Reality. And reality is exactly what crazy people have
>>> problem grasping. 
>> My reality is more real, and therefore more correct, than your
>> reality.  Prove me wrong.
>>
>> So, let's go back to my statement:
>> "Our political system limits and weeds out crazy, preventing it from
>> taking over."
>>
>> Prove that isn't true.
> 	You made the crazy claim, you should prove it. However
> 	since you are one of those crazies you talk about, you can't do
> 	it. 

I did prove it: History is packed full of evidence.  By induction, proof.

>
> 	And I actually have zero interest in reading the kind of stuff
> 	that a hitlery clinton supporter (you in this case) can write. 
>
> 	And to make things even crazier, you are a hitlery clinton
> 	supporter posting in an allegedly crypto-anarchist mailing list.
> 	The ANARCHIST bit should clue you in...if you were not out of
> 	touch with reality (i.e. crazy)

Have you actually read the Manifesto in its several forms?  Do you understand it?

What do you think that crypto-anarchy does and does not imply?  Are you sure that everyone else agrees?
The people who think that "anarchy" in "crypto-anarchy" means "*" aren't really thinking too hard.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-anarchism
[2] http://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/crypto-anarchy.html

Did you read my point about free-speech-anarchy a few weeks ago?  Did you understand it?
What about the point I just made about adapting and adopting solutions to emerging changes?

Cypherpunks has always straddled a number of areas; exploring the implications of crypto-anarchism is one of them.  Even in May's
quotes in [1], it isn't necessarily the point to have a collapse of a system as a goal, but to examine it as a possibility.  I think
the attitude is that if you come to believe that encryption and other security measures must be available, perhaps as an extension
of free speech, and those cause weak or broken systems to collapse, then so be it.  All kinds of things have been exposed recently. 
Do you think that makes the US any close to collapse?

Bad systems should change drastically or collapse, good systems should adapt and flourish.  Do you disagree with that?

>> Especially prove that it isn't true for
>> Americans.  The US government kept functioning normally even through
>> a civil war, world wars, 3 industrial revolutions, all kinds of
>> corruption, etc.  Here, I'm not talking about exceptionalism in
>> general, just the point that if crazies make it into power, they are
>> limited and don't last.  Point out a better system.  (The British are
>> said to no longer be making fun of our political system as of
>> Brexit. ;-) )
>>
>> I don't have time to get into it, but I think that the exceptionalism
>> perception, the quality of it, meaning, and use, is overblown in some
>> key ways.  We have evidence that certain things work and certain
>> things don't.  There is a big interplay with culture and back stories
>> that affect some of that, but most of it could transfer anywhere.
>> Maybe we're confused sometimes, but we have open debate to try to fix
>> that.  We regularly fix things that aren't working with only things
>> like rights as being inviolable.  It isn't 'we are Americans and
>> therefore you suck'.  It is more like "we have this cool open source
>> government project, why not fork it and see if it works for you
>> better than that old governmentware you're running".  We are tired of
>> being asked to fix your old broken down governmentputer because you
>> insist on running VMS and Windows.  Or your cousin's obsolete system
>> because you can't support them well.  Or whatever.  If you can make
>> it work, then do it.  Otherwise, upgrade.
>>
>> sdw
>>
>>>> sdw
>>>>
>>
sdw

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