[WAR] US government set on complete destruction of Ukraine

[Zenaan Harkness]

The only USA base missing on this map is Ukraine - you guessed it,
because Russia said "enough!"


On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 02:22:41PM -0700, Sean Lynch wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
> 
> > On 09/23/2016 08:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >
> > > So the US government appears set on complete destruction of
> > > Ukraine. Doesn't even make strategic sense at this point. I guess
> > > unless you're an essentially evil Western oligarch who wants to
> > > carve it up for purchase on the cheap, the people, the Russians,
> > > and the world be damned.
> >
> > In the context of the Cold War, now arriving at the boiling point due
> > to the Bush/Obama Administration's belligerent posture toward Russia,
> > the U.S. annexation of Ukraine via a (literally) Nazi proxy force
> > makes strategic sense:  It was a destabilizing military and economic
> > provocation against the Russian Federation, and has been followed by a
> > massive conventional force buildup on Europe's eastern borders, adding
> > pressure to the weight of U.S. controlled strategic nuclear assets
> > that were /already/ present on that border.  These deployments must be
> > countered, which ties up Russian military assets and reduces that
> > country's force projection capabilities in North Africa and the Middle
> > East.
> >
> > Russia's continuing support of the ethnic Russian enclave on Ukraine's
> > eastern border also makes strategic sense:  It prevents full
> > consolidation of power by the U.S. installed government, prevents
> > routine deployment of East-facing U.S. controlled forces on the
> > Ukraine/Russian border, and provides a potential haven for Ukrainian
> > insurgents working against the government in Kiev.
> >
> > Crimea's value to Russia is self explanatory, and I do not recall
> > hearing anything about the populace turning out to protest the orderly
> > handover of power to Russia in preference to a U.S. sponsored gang of
> > (literal) Nazis.  Rather the opposite, and I saw no evidence that the
> > U.S. even /tried/ to retain Crimea.
> 
> I don't disagree with this, but I will say that I think there are other
> equally valid interpretations that don't involve words like "annex", which
> I think applies far more to Russia with Crimea than it does to the US
> w.r.t. the rest of Ukraine. On the other hand, the main innovation of the
> US flavor of imperialism is the more subtle/opaque means by which it
> achieves its ends, thus ensuring that one can easily interpret it as not
> imperialism. Not that the Russians are above subterfuge; they're just not
> in a position to as easily use it in this situation.

Backing off now I see. "Slut" comes to mind. That and "2014's
propaganda"


> > The "USA Number One!" mentality of comfortable Middle Class Amerikans
> > makes sense of a kind: Their continued material prosperity relative to
> > the former Working Class /does/ depend on global terrorism, enforced
> > poverty, mass murder, cities reduced to rubble and refugee columns,
> > etc. as the U.S. war of global economic conquest continues.  They
> > deserve to see the same things happen to their own children and
> > families, and if they continue to get their own way they WILL see that
> > - - unless they happen to be closer to ground zero "on the day."
> > Unfortunately, this cheerful little scenario involves dragging those
> > /not/ responsible for all that human misery and heaped, dead burnt
> > bodies down into the same hell.
> 
> This is by no means unique or even more prevalent in the United States than
> elsewhere. The way for any government to retain its power is by convincing
> a large enough segment of the population that it's better off than it would
> be under some other situation they think they can achieve. Cognitive
> assonance does the rest. I certainly suffer from it as much as anyone. I
> like to think I'm more enlightened than the average person in my position,

A little honesty is a good thing.


> but TBH I have no idea what I'll do when the shit hits the fan. What I do
> know is that my family comes before any kind of ideology. Which in a sense
> is just selfishness, but I do feel like I was far more able to do things on
> behalf of ideology that were not in my immediate self-interest before I had
> kids.
> 
> 
> > The real conflict here is not West vs. East or even USA vs. The Rest
> > Of The World.  It is the human race, vs. its own parasitic ruling
> > class and their faithful servants.  The parasites have already lost;
> > if they do not surrender their power voluntarily (impossible),
> > environmental limits enforced by the laws of physics will destroy that
> > power (inevitable).  Now the only game in town is about reducing the
> > final body count, which no rational scenario places at less than a
> > couple of billion, and preserving essential long term survival
> > resources for the survivors.  And that's where radical populist
> > politics enters the scene.  Communication is vitally important in
> > political warfare, and providing the best possible tools to Our Side
> > is the mission that makes "cypherpunk" bullshit worth doing.
> 
>  I don't share your pessimism as to bodycount, but that could be wishful
> thinking.
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