Causing systemic change / achieving a lasting "win" - honest businessmen - gold and silver coin

[juan]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:17:24 +1100
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 03:10:33AM -0300, juan wrote:
> > On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 16:39:27 +1100
> > Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 07:44:42PM -0300, juan wrote:
> > > > 	This is what happens to honest businessmen in the US 
> > > > 	https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2012/03/26/use-real-money-go-to-federal-prison/
> > > 
> > > Not only the USA.
> 
> > > Moral of the story? A win/change by a lone individual will not
> > > last the next term of government where he is not re-elected, and
> > > ONLY a genuine grass roots supported movement for change, shall
> > > be lasting.
> > 
> > 
> > 	But he did get some popular support...
> 
> No, he got support for the data/info gathering.
> 
> Entirely different to political support for a systemic change.
> 
> 
> >  Maybe the moral of the
> > 	story is that democracy is rather flawed. "If voting changed
> > 	anything they'd make it illegal"
> 
> The Swiss failed to keep constitutional and therefore people control
> over their own money.
> 
> But they did for some decades experience far greater political
> "control" than most other so-called democracies around the world.

	switzerland is a bit more civilized in some ways than other
	countries. They don't have a
	'president' (king/figurehead/leader), they don't have a single
	'national' language - the political system seems to be
	somewhat more decentralized. 

	And the direct democracy thing is kinda interesting but
	futile in the end 

	look at this 

	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2014

	12 referendum on many non-trivial issues. The most notable
	thing to me is that there is no 'community' at all. The % of
	support for different  projects is all over the place. That
	means a lot of stuff get imposed on a lot of people against
	their will all of the time. 

	
	free movement of people : 50% 50% - but the anti free movement
	criminals won.

	commie-fascist financing for railways : 38% against it, have to
	pay anyway

	buying war planes : 53% against it - but it could have been
	49%...

	etc.





> 
> 
> Also balk against "they" - far too defeatist, leads to disheartened
> apathy ("there's nothing we can do - 'they' will stop us"). Not
> useful.