Why Cypherpunks Shouldn't Vote for the system of their own oppression

[juan]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 08:13:39 -0700
Razer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> The issue I'm having reading this thread about the US Erections is
> this list is ostensibly Anarchist and I don't understand why it's
> infested almost exclusively by Libertarians. Libertarians CANNOT be
> Anarchist ...

	Actually, advocates of so called 'limited' or 'minimal'
	government cannot be libertarians. The foundation of
	libertarian phylosophy is personal rights (life, liberty,
	property). Any government, by definition, must violate those
	rights to some 'limited' degree, so a 'libertarian' government
	is self-refuting. It cannot exist.


	On the other hand I do agree that any sort of support for the
	'democratic' system is sheer nonsense from the point of view of
	people interested in any sort of radical change. 


> because they believe in government. Small, but they
> BELIEVE that the US political system actually works in the interest
> of the people, or it can be made so.

	To state the obvious : no statist political system works in the
	interest of the subjects...

> 
> Rr
> 
> 
> On 10/24/2016 04:48 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > Finding it hard in my soul that i once again agree with razer but
> > then again i always say "mass murderers are sometimes nice to
> > others" so no one is completely dark
> > 
> > On Oct 24, 2016 5:12 AM, "Razer" <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> > 
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/23/2016 06:28 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >>
> >>> Although voting is likely not the answer, not voting is also not
> >>> the answer - as much as I agree with the sentiment and enjoy the
> >>> above, "voting vs not voting" is a false dichotomy.
> >>
> >>
> >> You think boycotts are ineffective then? Because that's what
> >> vocally refusing to vote is. A non-vote IS a vote. for none of the
> >> above. A selection not featured on any ballot anywhere.
> >>
> >> It's the only logical choice when all you're being offered is
> >> Fascists to vote for and you have a bunch of lame schmucks who
> >> think voting for a third party is either a wasted vote or
> >> assisting one of the candidates.
> >>
> >> That IS the level of COWARDICE seen in America today (Shawn
> >> Quinn), and that cowardice HAS created the mess we're in because
> >> sheeple willingly go to their slaughter.
> >>
> >> Btw, Bernie Sanders is a National Socialist. Jill Stein invited
> >> him to join her, NOT to coopt what passes for real socialism and
> >> destroy the US Green Party due to attrition of the base, who only
> >> vote for internationalist socialists. He won't. Most likely what
> >> would happen is the Greens would be overwhelmed by
> >> progressive-liberals and the party destroyed, so it all just as
> >> well that he sits in one of his three VERY EXPENSIVE Lake
> >> Champlain homes and dies a slow miserable death out of the
> >> national spotlight. No one I know will miss him.
> >>
> >> Rr
> >>
> >> "Dare to struggle baby... or stfu and sit in the corner out of the
> >> fucking way" ~Me
> >>
> >> A rapper covers the De-Baits.
> >>
> >> Trap News: The Farce Awakens
> >>
> >> "History has shown us that voting on elections accomplishes next to
> >> nothing, and that real lasting revolutionary change is won through
> >> hard work, by real people self organizing, and not by elected
> >> politicians. Yet every four years, the spectacle of the Democrats
> >> VS Republicans entices millions and makes them forget these proven
> >> facts. Trap News is our friendly (and funny, we hope) reminder of
> >> this."
> >>
> >> https://vimeo.com/186021038
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 05:59:25PM -0700, Razer wrote:
> >>>> Feb 10, 2016
> >>>>
> >>>> As the media-fueled spectacle of election season heats up in the
> >>>> United Snakes, many anarchist and anti-authoritarian comrades
> >>>> are experiencing a serious case of deja fucking vu. Once again,
> >>>> we find ourselves engaging in the same stupid fucking debates
> >>>> with liberals, so-called “progressives” and other fair-weather
> >>>> radicals, about the pitfalls of electoral politics, all while
> >>>> being talked down to, as though we're just naive, contrarian
> >>>> ideologues, who don't know what we're fucking talking about."
> >>>>
> >>>> A 5 minute exposition in layman's terms about why you're simply
> >>>> fucking stupid if you vote, slave:
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aTdAe6Vo2E
> >>>
> >>> Things need to change.
> >>>
> >>> Although voting is likely not the answer, not voting is also not
> >>> the answer - as much as I agree with the sentiment and enjoy the
> >>> above, "voting vs not voting" is a false dichotomy.
> >>
> >>
> >> You don't think boycotts are ineffective then? Because that's what
> >> vocally refusing to vote is. A non-vote IS a vote. for none of the
> >> above. A selection not featured on any ballot anywhere,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This election cycle is too late for a truly grass roots
> >>> endeavour, so only contact with the current runners is likely to
> >>> yield any impact - perhaps Trump can be caused to get back to his
> >>> "end the war on drugs, it is the ONLY way" statement from a
> >>> decade ago - he evidently had heard from someone or read
> >>> something, compelling to him, at that time.
> >>>
> >>> Or some middle finger party dumping by Bernie.
> >>>
> >>> Or some "agile politics" process with a few of the second tier
> >>> runners.
> >>>
> >>> If you have any contacts, this is your last week and a half to
> >>> try.
> >>>
> >>> If you fail to try with what you have, don't blame anyone else
> >>> for any "failure" you perceive in the upcoming elections...
> >>>
> >>> (Speaking enerically here of course, not to you specifically
> >>> Razer)
> >>>
> >>
> >