reason vs. rationalization

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Dec 04, 2016 at 11:43:39PM -0500, Steve Kinney wrote:
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> 
> On 12/04/2016 09:42 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > Here's a fine ("useful") distinction which jumps out this very
> > day:
> > 
> > " Reason is slippery because language is. Reason can easily become 
> > rationalization and discerning the difference is the task of true 
> > philosophy. " Dr Matthew Raphael Johnson on Petre Tutea of Romania
> > 
> > http://www.dailystormer.com/the-orthodox-nationalist-the-thoughts-of-p
> etre-tutea/
> 
> That's
> > 
> odd.  I thought the task of "true philosophy" was to evaluate
> the internal consistency of logical statements,

Ack. That's actually how I read "reason vs. rationalization" - as in,
reason is that logical reasoning based on facts, with rationalization
being say cherry picking facts, and or using strained logic to justify a
position.

May be the colloquial use of the word "rationalization" is different
here in Australia, don't know sorry, but we tend to say "now you're
rationalizing your untenable position", as being essentially the same as
"now you're justifying your untenable position".


> in a context where
> physical evidence or relevance to material situations is not
> considered.  Or is that mathematics?  The barrier between the two gets
> a bit fuzzy when Goedel's work gets dragged in, proving that proofs
> prove nothing.

Ahh Goedel, been on my bucket list for many years. Some years back I was
in a bookshop and saw some Goedel, Escher, Bach book and began reading
the 1000 pages whilst I waited for a friend.

After a few pages that fateful day, he's remained on my bucket list -
yes, still on the list.


> Rationalization normally means arguing backward toward a preconceived
> conclusion, in a process where logical contradictions and discarding
> or misrepresenting physical data are permissible - usually to justify
> or prove arbitrary and/or emotionally motivated propositions.  That
> seems very much like philosophy to me.

Haha! Your definition same same two dollar :)
<trigger warning, cultural appropriation alert/>

Except for that last bit - "philosophy" that is, for which I don't
actually have a definition, so I can't say yours in any different to
mine - it might be the same when I try to figure out a definition for
myself.


> On the other hand, the task of science is to test well defined
> assertions about physical processes by attempting to falsify them with
> observational data or experimental results contradicting those
> assertions.  Where does hitching "reason" to the material world get
> you?  Bang, zoom, to the Moon, Alice!

Perhaps the ideal word got lost in transalation and "reason" in this
instance should be "science".


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