[zen at freedbms.net: Re: [tor-talk] Appelbaum Subject Of Investigative Journalism]

[Zenaan Harkness]

I CCed this list on two of the emails. Here's the other 3.

Guess I ought be surprised they 'moderated' the last one below.

Regards,
Zenaan



----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> -----
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:07:42 +1000
From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Appelbaum Subject Of Investigative Journalism

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 06:52:57PM +0200, carlo von lynX wrote:
> Still sounds a lot like JTRIG and Zersetzung to me...

This list, unfortunately, is censored.

Desire to discuss important matters, when considered offtopic by those
with authority over this list, will result in being banned.

Other than that, your post is appreciated by me, fwiw.

Viva la censor!
----- End forwarded message -----

----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> -----
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:16:50 +1000
From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] A community concern that needs to be addressed,

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 09:17:48PM -0400, Griffin Boyce wrote:
> myzeus at openmailbox.org wrote:
> >Their post seems to be somewhat political and based on recent events.
> >The user's concern on the lack of technical posts makes a lot of
> >sense. I feel like Tor has become increasingly user-friendly and the
> >Tor Browser Bundle is by far less 'intimidating' to perform first time
> >configuration than it was a few years ago. The lack of technical posts
> >might concern some people. What are your thoughts on addressing the
> >issue?
> 
>   When I was at HOPE in July, men and women were saying (to me at least)
> that they were happy that Tor is progressing, that they think we're growing
> as a community, and they look forward to volunteering.  Honestly, that makes
> me really fucking happy.  That's not really an `identity politics` thing.  I
> would say that none of the people that I spoke to who plan to volunteer had
> any past negative experiences with any Tor peeps.  It's more a matter of
> seeing a terrible situation happen (from afar) and then seeing it handled in
> a serious way.

That would have been good.


> It's been a real rough patch for the community, but most
> everyone seems to be handling it with grace and professionalism.

Just not on the fundamentals.

Fail on your "process of justice" (irregardless of the guilt of an
accused), and you fail not only every one of us in "the Tor community"
but you fail yourself too!


> Things
> like that can inspire confidence in a project's team,

Sure. "Team bonding" arising from turmoil handled well.

That would be great, except that is NOT what has happened here. And it's
not what IS STILL happening.


> as weird as that
> probably sounds.

Not weird at all - relationships are built probably more on how the
"downs" are resolved rather than on how many "ups" you have!

Human nature.

And common sense.


>   So: I'm happy that people aren't scared away,

Again, would be great if that were true.

The problem is, saying it don't make it true. We can't "pretend away" a
genuine and ongoing problem - that's not "positive thinking", that's
actually "delusion" - a major difference!


> hope that people of all
> genders will keep volunteering, and that everyone will eventually move
> beyond this (perhaps to more technical topics).  People can always post
> about a Tor-related project on this list and it may well make it to the blog
> or twitter.  I mean, if someone posts a cool project here I'm pretty likely
> to post it to my twitter stream =)
> 
> ~Griffin
> 
> -- 
> Accept what you cannot change, and change what you cannot accept.
> PGP: 0x03cf4a0ab3c79a63
----- End forwarded message -----

----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> -----
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 17:59:08 +1000
From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Shutting down my tor relay

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 01:37:29AM -0500, Anthony Papillion wrote:
> Sorry, but this is crap. The Tor project has a lot of problems that they
> are hopefully trying to address. They are culpable in the whole
> situation with Jacob and that's on them. But you know who didn't do
> anything wrong? The actual people you're harming by shutting down your
> relay.
> 
> They have done nothing.
> 
> You're not punishing the Tor project by shutting your relay down. You're
> putting peoples lives in danger because of a political issue you have
> with Tor project. Why should innocent users be punished? Is the
> kerfuffle with Jacob worth someone's life?  I suppose only you can
> decide that but I think you're making a huge mistake.

I disagree with your characterisation that someone who stops
-volunteering- is putting peoples' lives at risk.

That is a slap in the face to the --volunteer-- for all the work they
have previously volunteered.
----- End forwarded message -----