Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
Tue Sep 22 09:19:25 PDT 2015
This Bitnation think looks like a shiny turd. And has been going on for a
while.
The few things they actually do are not new in idea nor implementation. The
rest is either crap (like 'we offer visa prepaid cards nao') or marketing
smoke. The real bitcoin happens on #bitcoin-assets, not in these peripheral
scampanies.
Scammers will tell you that the blockchain will suck you off and resolve
your decentralized disputes in the shiny cloud of the internet of things,
or any such nonsense shit, if they expect to get money/attention/press for
it.
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:19 AM, <tigrutigru at gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems like there's a confusion between contracts and cryotocontracts?
>
> > On 10 Sep 2015, at 7:19 am, cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org wrote:
> >
> > Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> > (Lodewijk andré de la porte)
> > 2. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Bryan Bishop)
> > 3. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Martin Becze)
> > 4. Repbin release v0.0.2 (ryan.pear at ownbay.net)
> > 5. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (jim bell)
> > 6. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> > Russia (rysiek)
> > 7. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> > Russia (Juan)
> > 8. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (rysiek)
> > 9. Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Rich Jones)
> > 10. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Ben Mezger)
> > 11. John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
> > (grarpamp)
> > 12. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (grarpamp)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:30:53 +0200
> > From: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> > To: Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net>
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
> >
> > I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
> to.
> Everyone loves ideas that Bitnation put their brand on.
> >
> > I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
> > marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
> > Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
> Exactly. Proof-of-existence. I don't understand what it has to do with
> Bitnation brand. Someone just wants to look cool. What exactly Bitnationare
> building?
> >
> > Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
> > enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
> >
> > I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
> > church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
> > explained in contract.
> Yes. Obligations can be explained. Still people go to courts and dispute
> contracts. These are text.
> > Contracts can go onto a blockchain.
> Contracts which go on the blockchain have nothing to do with legal
> contracts. Parts of the text (legal) contracts can be hooked to a smart
> contract I guess.
> I guess if a married couple has a dispute over digital property or btc in
> a wallet, let's say a script can manage it, but how the script (smart
> contract) will know who in this particular dispute did what. Even with no
> details and subtleties involved.
> > Generic. Neat.
> > Unpretentious.
> >
> > Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
> Ideas are nice. They're not necessarily coming from Bitnation. Proof of
> existence, or Blockchain ID for example were existing ideas which had
> functioning prototypes. They just don't make it sound grandiose.
>
> Bitnation has a claim to be a software project and afaik has a presale of
> a currency - either premined or non existent - I don't remember. I'm fine
> with that type of crowdfunding if there is some sort of product or a
> service behind it or an attempt to build it. I don't think that
> contemporary art project should pretend to be a software project or pretend
> that it can realistically offer serious services or replace existing ones.
> It's cool as a concept project.
>
>
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:39:51 -0500
> > From: Bryan Bishop <kanzure at gmail.com>
> > To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>, Bryan Bishop
> > <kanzure at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> > Message-ID:
> > <CABaSBax3zoGtBbegRTp-sXU6TspAF6MuRQXo1Q4QH7UX8jjuTw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <
> l at odewijk.nl>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
> >
> >
> >
> http://cointelegraph.com/news/112725/bitnation-core-dev-team-resigns-speaks-out-before-crowdsale
> >
> > - Bryan
> > http://heybryan.org/
> > 1 512 203 0507
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:41:56 +0000
> > From: Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com>
> > To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> > Message-ID:
> > <CALz06g5h4ETE3bnKdKbXCDnNvHUCnAFWXgXK=86tEaXfZs7i5g at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >> somewhat off
> > Yeah the founder went/is crazy, there is no technical work done and all
> of
> > the developers that were working on the project quite.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
> >>
> >> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
> >> to.
> >>
> >> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
> >> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
> >> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
> >>
> >> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things
> like
> >> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
> >>
> >> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
> >> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
> >> explained in contract. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Generic.
> Neat.
> >> Unpretentious.
> >>
> >> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:53:35 +0000
> > From: ryan.pear at ownbay.net
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
> > Message-ID: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a at ownbay.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > We're happy to announce the release v0.0.2 of Repbin:
> > The replicated, encrypted, distributed and anonymized pastebin.
> >
> > Changes include: Better terminal usability, sqlite/mysql backend,
> > binaries!
> >
> > Check here for release source code and client binaries:
> > https://github.com/repbin/repbin/releases/tag/v0.0.2
> >
> > About Repbin:
> > Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
> > Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> > each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> > resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> > and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> > denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> > algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> >
> > Learn more about Repbin here:
> > https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:48:56 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "ryan.pear at ownbay.net" <ryan.pear at ownbay.net>,
> > "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> > Message-ID:
> > <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >> About Repbin:
> >> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
> >> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> >> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> >> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> >> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> >> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> >> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> >> Learn more about Repbin here:
> >> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> > Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work
> with the power currently expended by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?
> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting: It could use a
> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is
> valuable to every nation on earth. Whether it can be lasso'ed into a
> bitcoin-mining engine, I don't know. Jim Bell
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> > From: rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> > Russia
> > Message-ID: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu at lapuntu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
> >> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
> >> documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."
> >>
> >> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
> >> Board of Governors propaganda beat.
> >
> > The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't automagically
> make B
> > not evil.
> >
> > The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia don't
> > really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia magically
> > okay.
> >
> > Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
> USA-Russia
> > relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
> >
> > --
> > Pozdrawiam,
> > Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
> >
> > Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> > GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 20:02:34 -0300
> > From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> > Russia
> > Message-ID: <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5 at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> > rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> >
> >> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
> >>> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing
> >>> Snowden documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to
> >>> the US."
> >>>
> >>> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the
> >>> Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda beat.
> >>
> >> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't
> >> automagically make B not evil.
> >
> >
> > Kindly point out where JY said the russian government was not
> > evil.
> >
> >>
> >> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia
> >> don't really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia
> >> magically okay.
> >
> >
> > Kindly point out where JY said that what's happening in russia
> > (whatever that is) is okay.
> >
> >
> > On the other hand rysiek given your laughable & constant
> > defense of the pentagon-funded tor-cunts, you are not really in
> > a position to be pointing too many fingers.
> >
> >>
> >> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
> >> USA-Russia relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:47:31 +0200
> > From: rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> > Message-ID: <6193628.0yFTp10ebS at lapuntu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 21:48:56 jim bell pisze:
> >>> About Repbin:
> >>> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over
> Tor!
> >>> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> >>> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> >>> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> >>> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> >>> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> >>> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> >>> Learn more about Repbin here:
> >>> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> >>
> >> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work
> with
> >> the power currently expended by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?
> >
> > My dream would be a distributed github replacement (a'la gitchain) where
> > proof-of-work is somehow related to compilation, running tests, or
> somesuch.
> >
> >> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting: It could
> use a
> >> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is
> valuable
> >> to every nation on earth. Whether it can be lasso'ed into a
> bitcoin-mining
> >> engine, I don't know.
> >
> > Probably not -- the "thing" mined has to be easily verifiable by other
> nodes.
> > How does one verify a weather forecast in such a setting? ;)
> >
> > --
> > Pozdrawiam,
> > Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
> >
> > Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> > GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:08:09 -0700
> > From: Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net>
> > To: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> > Message-ID:
> > <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> >
> > "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new
> foreign
> > hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
> >
> > https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> >
> > Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> >
> > R
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:25:29 -0300
> > From: Ben Mezger <mezger.benjamin at gmail.com>
> > To: miserlou at gmail.com
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> > Message-ID: <m2a8sv3w1i.fsf at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hmm,
> >
> > "Excuse me @telegram but ISIS are using YOUR network/application to sell
> > hostage. Please find more info. on that number!!"
> >
> > Well, I would agree with that, but that would probably break Telegram's
> > policy of "privacy", no?
> >
> > Rich Jones writes:
> >
> >> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> >>
> >> "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new
> foreign
> >> hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
> >>
> >> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> >>
> >> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> >>
> >> R
> >
> > --
> > Sent with my mu4e
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:16:48 -0400
> > From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > https://mcafee16.com/
> > http://cyberparty.org/
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
> > http://www.whoismcafee.com/
> > http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
> > https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
> > https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
> > http://johnmcafeestory.com/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:18:50 -0400
> > From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
> > To: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAD2Ti29=9pK1sMjiu1+YGOMrPexrHpEk4mb36HF4ZxKj6mvY3Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net> wrote:
> >> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmBNVMk_AGs
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surespot
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickr
> >
> https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/06/07/developers-silence-raises-concern-about-surespot-encrypted-messenger/
> >
> > https://twitter.com/cybercaliphate
> > https://twitter.com/search?q=cybercaliphate
> > https://twitter.com/search?q=cyphercaliphate
> >
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COOxuq-WIAAG8pQ.jpg
> > https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cyber+caliphate
> >
> >
> http://www.dailytech.com/Anonymous+vs+the+ISIS+Cyber+Caliphate++War+in+the+Middle+East+Goes+Digital/article37154.htm
> >
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/isis-hacker-group-cyber-caliphate-hacks-article-1.2067634
> >
> https://news.vice.com/article/the-islamic-states-top-hacker-was-killed-in-a-us-drone-strike
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junaid_Hussain
> > https://www.youtube.com/user/TeaMp0ison/videos
> >
> http://homeland.house.gov/sites/homeland.house.gov/files/documents/06-03-15-McCaul-Open.pdf
> > https://twitter.com/p_vanostaeyen/status/639165071072038913
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7FPdKXAAEucGl.jpg
> > https://twitter.com/lorenzoFB/status/638818414958477312
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-launches-secret-drone-campaign-to-hunt-islamic-state-leaders-in-syria/2015/09/01/723b3e04-5033-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html
> >
> >
> >> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> >> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> >
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WwAAmKzB.jpg
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WIAAJGAg.jpg
> > +9647705648252
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cypherpunks mailing list
> > cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 27, Issue 14
> > *******************************************
>
>
--
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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