Would you work if you didn’t have to?

[odinn]

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I agree with l.

Essentially what a true BI would do (implemented broadly across the
globe, at least) is to make this society even worse than it already
is, with Cloud Atlas being a good analogy.

It's interesting that few have paused to consider the potential
ramifications of guaranteeing resources for anyone (and I don't think
rehashing examples from Alaska and Saudi Arabia are helpful), but
haven't hesitated to demand that your resources be taken by and
allocated here and there by actors and representatives of dubious
quality so that their plans for social and economic control can be
implemented.  Not to mention that the whole BI enterprise, to the
extent that it is reliant upon governments, is backed by coercion and
use of force.

(To the extent that a BI scheme is non-governmental, and thus not
backed by state threat of violence, imprisonment, etc., for failure to
comply, it would be less objectionable, but still come with a variety
of problems, as there would always be "BI allocators" (e.g. BI policy
or BI core developers, whose decisions affect groups or populations)
and corporate or autonomous actors whose interests would automatically
disregard those of individuals and collectively organized resistance
entities (COREs)).  I consider that these concerns, which I think l.
has properly identified and which I also echo here, apply to
http://groupcurrency.org/ and other ideas which are similar in concept.

As l. correctly stated, "(BI) will create a future where nobody is
willing to revolt, and the state is in even further reaching control."

I would propose as a better system than BI would be a truly voluntary
system (that does not include BI, but which would allow people to
conduct any sort of transactions they like) where people have the
opportunity to choose what sort of direction they want their resources
to go while also opening the door to helping as many people as
possible in the context of their transactions ~ without relying upon
statism, violence, or use of force.

In the coming days, please see https://bytecoin.org/ where there will
soon be some updates relative to this very notion (two use cases of
ABIS (http://abis.io) in BCN), to be in the 1.0.8 graphic wallet
version, currently scheduled for release on Sep 29 or 30, 2015.  (This
version may possibly end up coming out a bit later, as date of release
is estimated, thus keep your eyes peeled.)

- -O

Lodewijk andré de la porte:
> 2015-09-18 18:33 GMT+02:00 grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>:
> 
>> Some balancing is needed, so we talk of BI, wealth leveling, 
>> universal healthcare, education, etc. This is natural control,
>> happens when puppeteers make up 1% of 99% puppeted. As in
>> history, if left unbalanced too long or deep, the slaves revolt
>> and reboot.
>> 
> 
> This is one possible outcome -- but this is FAR from a revolt.
> 
> Just as likely is the outcome where Basic Income cattle is herded
> into cheap everything arrangements, where they're offered "fun and
> fulfilling" work for non-market pay. These humans will be entirely
> economically detached. The overlords will reap their Basic Income,
> and allow them to live month by month. (note: this already happens,
> you walk in a Hyundai/Samsung build appartment block, where Lotte
> runs all the supermarkets, and all the entertainment is provided by
> CJ, Koreans don't fear big-corps, so they don't hide it, but I
> think this is probably true in many places of the world)
> 
> Or, as in the amazing Cloud Atlas, we will create a caste-like
> society with "producers", "consumers" and perhaps some other groups
> ("politicians"? "Celebrities"?).
> 
> We may move from 99% to 99.9% puppets. It's just a way to
> generalize the population, to silence the masses, to present
> happiness and freedom to be guaranteed for all. Without alarm the
> watchers will turn to sleep, and under that dark moon the world
> will change.
> 
> Simply put, it solves some problems but not all of them. BI can
> potentially worsen the situation.
> 
> I think the immediate gain of guaranteed personal freedoms; freedom
> from labor, freedom to self-improve, freedom to perform altruism,
> freedom to perform art, and yes, even freedom to party, are worth a
> great deal. Yet, it will create a future where nobody is willing to
> revolt, and the state is in even further reaching control.
> 
> It also just upsets my minimal-government-preference somewhat. I
> just don't like the idea of people living off of money I earned. It
> only makes sense because money is already an abstract and perverted
> item, and because basic needs will soon drop much further in their
> cost. (Especially if cheap living becomes a greater priority)
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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