Shiny stuff and designer societies

[Juan]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:19:29 +0100
Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:


> 
> Juan:
> 
> > That sounds like true capitalism (savings) whereas the system
> > Lodewijk is advertising is mercantilism/consumerism/fascism.
> 
> 
>  I argued that time expended readily outweighs cost saved. 


	I argue that the market is distorted by the financial mafia, by
	big (and even some small) business, by public 'education' (makes
	people stupid) by religion (makes peoples stupid *and* evil), by
	'fashion' (advertising) - and more. 

	As a result, people buy useless and 'fashionable' stuff,
	produced by privileged firms, and financed by 'cheap' (i.e. fake) credit.


	
> Not
> anything else. (I have fixed things for fun and cost savings, like
> Razer argued makes sense, but then it's entertainment - not
> economically wise choices)

	'economically wise' choices can be made in a free market, not
	in the current mercantilistic/fascist system. 

> 
> 
> He's talking about mercantilism. By "advanced finance" he
> > actually means the banking mafia and government robbing
> > everybody blind.
> 
> 
> No. In my idealized model politics is quite a different game. There
> is most definitely still a "government mafia", that harasses everyone
> to 1. stay out of each other's hair


	So a criminal monopoly is going to define what 'justice' is,
	and enforce it, too. 

	You can keep repeating absurd, mainstream propaganda without
	any regard to logic, but what's the point? What can you
	achieve? 

	
> and 2. invest in the advancement
> of the human race (think space travel, science).

	So your criminal monopoly is not only going to pretend that
	their crimes are 'just' and 'fair'. They are so enlightened that
	they are also going to 'advance' 'science'. 

	Come on Lodewijk. Why don't you do your homework? Learn the ABC
	of poltical theory. 



> But, there is no
> nations. 

	Ah, so your monopoly of crime is going to tyranize the whole
	planet. Cute.



> That is to say, a mixed economy. Again.
> > mercantilism/fascim/state socialism/state communism.
> 
> 
> I think some products are best rendered without competition, and some
> are best rendered with competition. 

	I think your baseless, economically ignorant opinions are just
	that. Baseless and ignorant. 

	Plus, you thik you have the 'right' to force people to conform
	to your 'utopia'. Do you mind explaining how you acquired that 'right'?
	<----fundamental question.

	Do you mind answering fundamental questions? 



> So long as the drive to do best
> exists we do not really need to replicate effort. Eg: Patents are
> only good for preventing people from using the best available
> methods. It's a hack to make investments more worthwhile, and secrecy
> less important. If we didn't need a profit incentive there would be
> no need for patents.

	So, you are also defending the 'intellectual property' mafia? 

	It's a 'necessary evil'? (doubly retarded since you don't
	believe in 'evil' eh? )


> 
> A similar argument is possible for shrewd advertising, why lie to
> people if you do not profit from it? One helps everyone most by
> providing correct information. (*this is not true, people regularly
> need to be coerced to act in their best interests.

	Sure. What if I beat you to a pulp? For your own good of
	course. Oh, 'your own good' is whatever I say it is. I am the
	government. 


> But coercion for
> the better is really not that bad.)


	Okay. You can keep repeating the same totalitarian
	'progressive' nonsense ad nauseam. But I had enough. 


	
> 
> In the real world we oft encounter duopolies. Basically a monopoly
> with a state-protected laggard. The monopolist ensures the laggard
> continues existing, for example by increasing it's own prices to a
> kind of unreasonable height. That ensures sales for the laggard, and
> maximum profit. Basically this whole system is then fucked, as there
> is no real drive for advancement (the laggard cannot overtake the
> monopolist, it has not the funds. But it also cannot fail, the
> monopolist prevents it. So why even put up a fight?) and humanity is
> helped no better than the laggard performs. It happens with all our
> huge markets, from shipping to silicon to telecom to food to housing
> to government to diamonds, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
> 

	Clueless rambling. Or ill intentioned, self-serving propaganda.


> 
> > Lodewijk is just a run of the mill fascist who thinks he has
> > the 'god given' right to 'design' 'society' according to his
> > fuckingly retarded tastes.
> >
> > Also, he likes to pretend that the bad outcomes of his fascist
> > system are caused by innocent lambs who actually want to do the
> > 'right' thing. Sick.
> >
> 
> I'm too minarchist to be a facist, but otherwise you're spot on. Try
> not to confuse my designs with the current world.I am not a
> supporter of the status quo, 


	...says a supporter of the status quo who is parroting
	mainstream propaganda in a more or less radical mailing list.


> but I will attempt to understand it, and
> I will say there's hardly an evil actor out there. 

	Well, I can say the moon is made of cheese. 

> We just
> collectively fuck up according to our fuckingly retarded tastes.


	Sure. Soldiers and wall street bankers are just as innocent as
	4 year old children. 


> 

>


J.