Shiny stuff and designer societies

[Shelley]

On October 28, 2015 8:09:08 AM Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:

> New threat, this is offtopic.

[Snipping as needed.  Warning: it is lengthy.]

I facepalmed so hard when I read this.  I support and agree with both 
Razer's and Juan's replies to this post; I just didn't want to offend the 
netiquette-sensitive by posting +1 to both replies.

All of these:

> I feel like you are ignoring the cost of time, underestimating people's
> expenses, and arbitrarily hate cars and meat.
>
> For most "the latest iCrap" is not a significant expense. 200 euro's a
> month or so (phone + laptop) is quite doable, especially given how much
> time one spends with iCrap devices. Resale value is nonzero, too, so
> really, quite doable.
>
> I know how to fix/repurpose most things. Actually fixing things often
> doesn't compare favorably with just buying a new one - time spent at 10
> euro's per hour makes most repairs very borderline effective.
>

Totally miss the point.  Totally.

You seem to be speaking from a position where it sounds like money is the 
focal point, the most important factor.  To me, it is the least important 
part of the equation.

Ever heard of voluntary simplicity?  It's a concept I have embraced for all 
of my adult life.  I don't have much money because I don't want it.  I 
don't use many resources because I like to tread lightly upon the earth, 
and I don't think it's fair if I have an abundance of something while 
others have none.  I'm not a capitalist, never have been nor will I ever 
be.  I agree with Razor's view of capitalism.  Juan's, too.

Nor do I have a god delusion that lets me shit all over the earth, be 
horrible to people and do whatever else I want as long as I say the magic 
words in a prayer and put an offering of filthy lucre in a basket for 
absolution.   This is the only shot I get at not being a totally useless 
garbage person.  My conscience won't allow me to mindlessly consume at the 
expense of the planet and other people.  I'm not sorry for that.

One aspect of the human cost of "shiny new crap" has already been pointed 
out by Razer.  I wasn't talking about the monetary cost to you (although 
paying €200/mo for a phone and laptop is incredibly unnecessary, imho.  But 
I like to have control over the operating systems of my devices, and see no 
reason to upgrade hardware to newer models if they're in good working order 
and meeting my needs.)

Do you get no sense of personal satisfaction from repairing something that 
would have gone into a landfill?  Or of building something exactly how you 
want it instead of buying overpriced, pressed particleboard crap that is 
toxic to both humans and the environment?  Where is your hacker ethic, man?

> > - Freecycle, trade with others
>
> Trade what? I do secondhand shopping and selling when appropriate, that
> should be good too.
>

More appropriate is the question, what wouldn't you trade?  Things you no 
longer use or need for something you do.  Skills you have, for some your 
neighbor has (can be as simple as I'll help you repair and paint your 
porch, you help me sow and plant my garden.)  Trading child/ elder/ pet 
care, shared meals, errands... do you really have no friends or neighbors 
with whom you do this?

> > - Shop at second hand and thrift stores for most things.
>
> Do, for the things it makes sense for. It takes more effort as you
> frequently will not find what you were looking for. (protip: great for
> amplifiers and speakers)
>

The list of what one wouldn't buy secondhand is much shorter. Yes, you can 
go into the Gap and buy a pair of pants for €70... but why would you want 
to?  So what if it takes me an hour to look through thrift store racks - 
for that $70, I'd come out with several pairs of perfectly nice pants, 
skirts, shirts... it's madness.

 I have a dresser for which I paid $20 at a thrift store, over 20 years 
ago.  It is made of sturdy, solid wood and in excellent condition, has 
survived cross-country trips and countless local moves.  Good luck with 
your Walmart junk!

That hour I "wasted" saving hundreds of $ or € in a thrift store?  I'll get 
it back by using commute time to read and catch up on things while taking 
the bus or train.  You'd be stuck driving in traffic (if you lived in my 
city; not sure how it is where you live), all stressed out.

What I don't buy used: undergarments, pillows, etc.  But I won't ever buy 
them at Walmart, either.

> > - Think before you buy.  Try to support true fair trade/fair wages and buy
> > locally whenever possible.  Hint: it's usually possible.
> >
> Fair trade/wages are determined by the capitalist market, not by me. I'm
> simply not that arrogant. If you don't believe in markts you have more work
> cut out for you than just buying fair trade branded products. (Protip:
> fairtrade is just another way for things to be shiny)

No. That's why I said *true* fair trade, a living fucking wage.  Not a bag 
of coffee from a corporate behemoth with a fake stamp on it.  Please, tell 
me you knew that and are just being cheeky?

>
> Buying local is even more meaningless. If transport costs do not outweigh
> production costs, go ferry it in from Australia, China, Chile, etc. You're
> making the efficient choice by doing so.
>

So are you saying that you're okay with people working in slave labor 
conditions & being paid subhuman wages, polluting the atmosphere by 
transporting this stuff for thousands of miles... instead of supporting the 
local businesses in your own community, if the price is right?  I can't 
even answer this.  Not without flaming.  I can't.

>
> Public transport or Zip Carring add to stress, cost more time, are not
> reliable and are not portable storage. I'd like an electric car, but the
> initial purchase is so high it skews things like tax and insurance.
>
> Idk why you hate cars so much. They're pretty damn useful, give you lots of
> freedom and independence, and just help you get around so much better than
> public transport. Their prices also compare with other forms of transport.
>
> (bikes are slow and only really work in villages or compatible cities)
>

I don't intrinsically hate cars.  As was already mentioned, does everyone 
really need one (or more) of them, though?  Your CBA is flawed because, 
again, you're only thinking of yourself.  Your convenience, your money.  
There is an entire world around you.  You could start by cutting back on 
the amount of damage you do to it.

Public transport sucks sometimes, no doubt.  Get involved to make it 
better.  It's not wasted time if you use it to read, learn something new, 
chat with someone, or post random bullshit to public internet lists ;)

On nice days, biking is good exercise for those who are able.  Most of us 
don't get enough exercise as it is.

>
> Preparing my own food is a waste of time, other people are cheaper, mass
> production is cheaper, I'm very mediocre at cooking.

It is not ANY of these things.  Use that time on the bus to learn how to 
cook basic stuff!  Cook on the weekend while hanging out with 
friends/family or rocking out to music and make your lunches and dinner 
main dishes for the entire next week.  How is that not saving time, money 
and being good for your health?

>
> Going vegan is an interesting choice, all evidence points to it being much
> much much better for the environment, etc.

It is, and much better for your health as well (not to mention, better for 
the animals!)

> but meat is still quite
> affordable and quite complimentary to meals. If it truly were 100x easier
> on the environment I'd expect to see that in the price, and I hardly do. I
> assume there's some sort of sponsoring going on, and until it stops I'll
> keep on eating delicious and healthy meat.

If the meat industry wasn't subsidized, you'd be paying $20/lb for 
hamburger.  If you're truly interested, read Diet for a New America by John 
Robbins (who was heir to The Baskin-Robbins ice cream fortune and walked 
away from it all to lead a vegan, ethical life.)

It has America in the title but is applicable to all (we are just among the 
worst offenders, as with most things.)  There are several documentaries 
that show the horrors of factory farming; I'll list some if you'd like.  
Not only is it barbaric, it is extremely unhealthy for you.

>
> Razer mentioned a TV, I don't own one.

Razer and Juan answered the rest of this with much more grace than I would. 
 Wouldnt want my "fuck" counter to push me higher on the offensiveness list ;)

-Shelley