Shiny stuff and designer societies (addenda)

[Razer]

On 10/30/2015 11:02 AM, Sean Lynch wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 10:33 AM Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net
> <mailto:Rayzer at riseup.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     I think there's a place for individualism within collectivism but the
>     collective comes first.
>
>
> This I can't really agree with. There is no collective without the
> individual, and why should any individual be part of such a thing if
> it doesn't benefit him or her?

In a word "Survival".
>
> I recognize that we share the planet and that we all benefit from the
> existence of society, but I think the only obligation that places upon
> us is to give at least as much as we take.


Sorry, as an anarchist I have to say it's an anarchist's responsibility
to take responsibility for the well-being of all members of the
collective, which for me includes ALL humankind.


> But at the end of the day the only people qualified to make the
> determination of whether an individual's contribution is adequate is
> the individual and anyone considering entering into some kind of
> exchange/relationship/whatever with that individual.

That is the antithesis of collectivism.

> It is the sum total of these decisions and interactions from which
> society emerges.

Feudal or industrial capitalist society perhaps.

>
> My longer term hope is that sharing the planet is just a temporary
> constraint that we'll eventually overcome. There is a lot of room in
> the galaxy and even the solar system. "If you don't like it, leave"


More like "We fucked it up. Let's go somewhere else and fuck it up now"

(visualizes moon-based fast-food chain trash fired from a rocket hitting
alien on head starting an intergalactic war humans are unprepared for
leading to their annihilation)

You like "Role-Playing" games Sean? I've watched people create
alternative personas just as fucked up as their pre-existing one. That
IS the lesson from role-playing. If you can't get your 'first life'
right, good luck with any other you might conceive.

I've had thoughts about letting all the people who think escape from the
planet is an option do it, and kill each other off elsewhere so the rest
of us who remain can live in peace repairing the damage ...
collectively. Almost every enthusiast of the relocation-to-space idea
I've ever met is a closeted feudalist. Good luck.. Bon voyage!


> is a lot more realistic of an option when the choices and resources
> available are practically infinite.

No known resource is infinite.

> This is not to say I'm sympathetic to the Venus Project and its' ilk;
> I don't think they're wrong about a future of abundance, I just think
> their language and thinking is rooted in a fundamental
> misunderstanding of the meaning of economic scarcity.


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 5569 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20151030/1939e53e/attachment-0002.txt>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 836 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20151030/1939e53e/attachment-0002.sig>