Basic income (was) Re: noscript is 10 years!

Zenaan Harkness zen at
Tue May 26 04:37:16 PDT 2015

On 5/26/15, Mirimir <mirimir at> wrote:
> On 05/25/2015 10:46 AM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:

>> It seems there must be a human factor, and something that looks a lot like
>> a
>> government, but I can't quite wrap my head around how to make sure each
>> of
>> those 7e9 redunancies can only create 7e9 basic income generating
>> accounts, and
>> do a moderately good job of identifying and stopping those that try to
>> collect,
>> via force, coercion, or deceit, more than their share of basic income.
> The AIs could just collaborate. They would estimate what the basic
> income guarantees should be, and negotiate shares. There would be no
> reason to involve humans, excepting any human-AI hybrids involved.

I think "those that try to collect via force..." refers to some of the
7e9 humans, not the AIs - why would the AIs need money anyway? They
have perhaps energy need for their existence and ... that's it; except
for some programmed "imperative" - other than survival energy need -
any other imperative is overlaid or in addition to mere survival.

If there are multiple AIs, not one, are they competing - some
dominance imperative? We humans certainly tend to think in terms of
competition - but I say that besides survival, this is a taught reflex
and neither necessary nor our ideal - from the earliest stages of
mental development we get measured by our exam marks and gold stars,
celebrated and praised for our performance "over" others, rewarded
with money for our competitive advantage in "the market" - sadly most
of us "modern trained" humans are thoroughly entrained or schooled
with the competition mindset.

Schooling, sadly so far from education in so many ways.

Such an irony then that we "have" such abundance, or could have - and
yet are so often limited in our language?

When in abundance for all, money needs us if money is to persist as a
dominant or even relevant social concept and reality within our

Money is currently a primary measure of our "competitive performance"
in the current "modern" world, yet where survival is no master
(everyone in abundance) money is now a mere contrivance - a play thing
for some, or perhaps for many. Perhaps money would be useful to
signify standing in a community - esteem or assumed wisdom in decision

Alas further growth of humans is certainly indicated by the current
environment, human rights and inter personal record of the human
<money>keep running hampster!
<7e9>I think I can, I think I can!

Presently those who take positions of power generally appear to be
those who lust after such and evidently these humans carry predominant
intent of competitive "me first" personal agendas (albeit perhaps
extending to family and friends on occasion), sucking through their
snouts from the trough of limitation, presuming scarcity and some
ungodly "need" to act selfishly and to dominate by any means (oh, idk,
may be a middle eastern invasion or something will "prop up" "our
blessed economy").

Can abundance be sustained or indeed is it worth sustaining at all in
the face of the present reality of so many of the 7e9? Many/most
humans, by my eyes so unable to restrain themselves from appealing to
the next vote rather than ever truly stand for a principle, appear to
need royal kicks up the arse. And "the masses" are little better,
riding populist waves of media hype and hysteria.

Conundrums, possibilities, challenges, intentions.

If a worthy one were to appear, could I convince him or her that
humans are worth making a stand for? Well, as I keep getting reminded,
some humans a cool, some thoughtful, others passionate and some fun to
be around on occasion, and some even stand for a principle. It is
those latter ones for which I gather up my bootlaces to walk another
mile and ask for a little forgiveness for my excessive cynicism.

Perhaps we see in the libre software world the beginnings of a
possible model or comprehension for how we might conduct ourselves
(act) and organise ourselves (relate to one another) in a world
structured around the reality of abundance rather than the gross
illusion of competitive scarcity.

Here's hoping, fellow humans!


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