Russia and China crack Snowden Cache

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 6/17/15, Tim Beelen <tim at diffalt.com> wrote:
> On 6/16/2015 9:16 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> On 6/17/15, Tim Beelen <tim at diffalt.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/16/2015 7:13 AM, John Young wrote:
>>>> WikiLeaks WikiTweets only .05% of Snowden documents have been
>>>> declassified for release by the spy-micking hoarders, out of nearly 1M.
>>>> Cryptome tallies 7% of Guardian's magically variable 58,000 or .02%
>>>> of DoD's defense industry mass overkill 1.7M.
>>> The reason for this is the work that /all/ of these institutes do. It is
>>> bigger then what an individual or, is some cases, a small group can
>>> accomplish. And can easily be undermined if details are published. Who
>>> is it to say that what CIA has been doing is not in U.S. best interest.
>>> You? Me?
>> You just bought not only the false presumption, but a logical
>> impossibility - without knowledge in detail of the CIA's actual
>> actions, I am unable to prove their violations.
>
> So, you have no knowledge of all the details of the CIA's actions, but
> you are sure that they consist of violations? Is that right?
>
> By the way, the CIA is under congressional oversight. That is where
> accountability ends. They don't have to explain themselves to you.
>
> How effective is this oversight? I think the vast majority Members of
> Congress in general do not have the cognitive skills to understand the
> issues that the CIA creates. Let alone come to an agreement on how to
> handle the agency.
>
> To summarize the problem: the CIA is has about 20.000 employees. Which
> is substantially bigger then in the 1950s where they had maybe about
> 4-5.000. They are an intelligence office. They started out gathering
> intelligence, gained intelligence gathering capabilities and now have
> capabilities to operate independently to some extent for some years.
>
> Now, we know they spy on Congress. Manipulate congress. Overthrow
> governments.

And somehow you presume such things are in the best interests of the USA?

Good luck convincing people on that one...


> Steer elections. But who controls them? With no oversight
> they basically do 'whatever' and 'whatever' is quite a dangerous thing
> to do. Now, in hindsight, I don't care if they go around the world and
> bully people into playing nice. But that is besides the point.
>
> The problem is the culture. Recent breaches of security contractors have
> shown that information technology information gatherers (ITIG) employs a
> lot of clowns. Like you, you want a polarized version of the world where
> the CIA is bad.

What I want is for "loose cannon power wielders" to principle the fuck
up. Overthrowing governments does not mesh with my idea of principle,
nor human rights, nor national strength, dignity, rule of law - not a
damn thing I hold important.

There appears to be abundant evidence over the years that the US is
throwing its political, economic and military might around, all over
the world, just being a bully, without respect for ethics, principle,
national sovereignty, dignity, human rights, without even respect for
the rule of law and as a total hypocrite to its own past behaviour -
compare Kosovo actions to Ukraine dialog.

Sure, in principle we can say "every one is doing their best".

Well, their best is not fucking good enough, since almost no one (it
appears) sacrifices personal convenience for their greater ideals and
principles, and somewhere up the chains of command those with "genuine
power" run amok far too often.

By all means dear CIA and CIA apologists (and NSA, FBI, USAGOV,
ANY_OTHER_ENTITY), publicize your good outcomes and your stands for
what we common folk consider principles, human rights, fairness and
the like. Give us hope. Give us stories of the great democtratic
benefits you've brought to the countries whos governments you've
successively installed, overthrown, installed, overthrown.

Love to hear genuine positivity facts.

Facts to the contrary ('negative' outcomes) abound by incontrovertible
evidence or for thinking men and women, incontrovertible conclusion.

Bring on the CIA is Wonderful for The World facts. Please! I really,
really want to believe the world is in better shape than it bloody
well appears to be!

Demonstrate the three letter agencies of USAGOV that have upheld,
rather than violated, human rights around the world (hell, even in
their own country!). From where we peasants sit, those in power
continue to justify their every apparent misdeed somehow - 'the end
justifies the means' perhaps? Meanwhile the world goes to hell in a
hurry. Since the far less than admirable 'means' predominate, over and
over and over again.


> Just bad. And by your own admission you don't even care
> what they do, you are just looking to punish them. That is not a data

Find some other idiot's mouth to put words in. This one's evidently
failed to raise the tone of this particular dialog.

Good luck with your thesis and here's hoping others can do a better
job of bringing something higher to this world.
Zenaan


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

"Once you set up a covert operation to supply arms and money, it's
very difficult to separate it from the kind of people who are involved
in other forms of trade, and especially drugs. There is a limited
number of planes, pilots and landing strips. By developing a system
for supply of the Contras, the US built a road for drug supply into
the US."
Former CIA agent David MacMichael[1]
"
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