an ominous comment

[Nick Econopouly]

On 07/21, Juan wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:53:11 -0400
> Nick Econopouly <nickeconopouly at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > The US government does not keep its power over its citizens with
> > just brute force and propaganda. It is a complex social relationship,
> > and yes a great deal of propaganda is involved. But it is not
> > totalitarian the way you frame it. 
> 
> 
> 	Sure. It's not totalitarian. It's simply based on the free
> 	principle of democracy : obey or die. 
ok
> 
> 	You don't need to waste your amazing intellect refuting me,
> 	Nick. I've conceded your point. 
nah you basically can't understand my emails but ok
> 
> 
> 
> > It is not like a children's movie
> > where the villians are all ugly and you can tell they are villians
> > just from the way they look and talk. The policeman, the marine dude,
> > and even the politician or CIA official came from some family and
> > applied for the job because it was considered an acceptable way to
> > make a living and contribute to society. They are not all evil. It
> > doesn't matter if the nasty recipe of them all mixed together makes
> > the USA cause/commit atrocities, it's simplistic and basically false
> > to act like every one of these USians is evil. 
> 
> 
> 	Thanks Nick. Now I really get it. People who do evil things are
> 	not evil. They are good. 
You don't get it, at all. 

Interestingly enough, a lot of anarchist theory agrees with what I said-
The idea that people are like blank slates and not good or evil. It says
that people are influenced by the world around them and that is what
determines their morality, etc.

So, for instance, while most people today could not accept or live in an
anarchist society(without some... un-indoctrination at the very least),
people who are raised in one would find it perfectly
normal and agreeable.
> 
> 
> 1)
> > Think of the disgruntled senator or NSA worker who is reading this
> > list,
As in someone reading it in their free time, not because they were
assigned to spook it. Obviously.
> 
> 2)
> > Actually, to be honest, you are serving the NSA more than anyone on
> > this list, even the "spies".
Unintentionaly. Indirectly. Whatever. I guess adding a few implied words makes
reading comprehension easier for some people. I was not making a
statement about your affiliation.
> 
> 3)
> > Also, you guys really think there is an NSA-man personally
> > reading this list, looking for dissedents? Why would they waste their
> > time on this shit? 
> 
> 
> 
> 	See Nick, that's the real extent of your intellect. It took you
> 	two paragraphs to flatly contradict yourself. 
No, it took you two paragraphs to show that you can't understand my
basic points.
> 
> 
> 
> > The only ones subverting it are the most hardcore
> > cypherpunks here, 
> 
> 	Well, thanks for considering me a hardore cypherpunk? Now think
> 	about what you wrote. You're whining about cypherpunks in a
> 	cypherpunk mailing list. Do you see just how ridiculous you
> 	are? 
I should have put quotes around "cypherpunks". I think it's laughable
for cypherpunks to basically not support some of the most important
cryptography around. You are hardcore because of your trolling, and
cypherpunk because you are on this list.
> 
> 	But I get it. What you want is a cypherpunk mailing list full of
> 	obama supporters - like you. Did I get that one right? 
I guess it's too much for someone to openly say they aren't 100% sure
how to solve the worlds problems or if we can, and doesn't want to
affiliate with any specific "ism" prison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > who act like pretty much every free cryptography
> > program is US propaganda somehow. If juan is an agent, he is doing his
> > job very well.
> 
> 	Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Many people in the govt. think they are doing good, and to be honest a
> > good deal of them are. 
> 
> 
> 	Humor me. What word do you use to describe your political
> 	beliefs? 
The problem is one word could never do justice to a diverse, changing
view of the world. I tend not to have "political" beliefs anyway, unless
you count staying away from politics.

My friend is a volunteer firefighter, and most of the firefighters in
USA are volunteers. They have a town logo on them, but they are not
evil.
> 
> 
> 
> > This coming from someone who thinks healthy
> > society could exist without a government. 
> 
> 
> 	Oh OK. You are a fucking nutcase who fancies himself an
> 	anarchist while he praises the US government. 
again, none of these things are true. My main point was black/white
arguments against the government are unrealistic and childish, and can't
hope to convince people that it is reasonable to question their society.

I was hardly praising anything. What I said about people thinking they
are doing good still stands. Ask any police officer, they will think
that they are protecting and serving the public. Whether or not that is
the actual role of their position.

When anti-authoritarians (or anarchists, or whatever people here are)
come off as haters of the meany evil poo-poo US government and all of
its villians, who will take them/us seriously?
> 
> 
> 	I rest my case. 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> > 
> > Citizens think the government is on their side too, and it's not that
> > they are simply brainwashed. There are no mandatory telivision hours
> > where you have to watch govt propaganda, the two main sources of it
> > are in the msm (TV), and at school while the child grows up. It isn't
> > north korea, or 1984.The citizens
> > don't feel forced, most of them, and it's because the government has
> > this habit of NOT being an evil, creepy death cult most of the time.
> > The bad stuff happens away from the public view including the stuff
> > y'all have mentioned like the CIA mercenary armies and fiddling with
> > regimes after WWII.
> > > 
> > > 	It has apologists of the US marines. 
> > > 
> > > 	It has high ranking scumbags from the CIA.
> > > 
> > > 	It has commie 'anarchists' who are offended by (and would
> > > love to silence) people who badmouth the marines' apologists. 
> > False. I wouldn't have interjected because then I am contributing to
> > the problems of this mailing list, but don't keep telling
> > fabrications about me please.
> > 
> > Literally every statement in that sentance is a lie about me. Not
> > cool.
> > > 
> > > 	And NOW it also has a google and cloud apologist. Welcome
> > > 	Stephen =) You are yet another reason to distrust the FLOSS
> > > movement and its bloatware.
> > 
> > It's amusing how Juan picked up the "apologist" term from my emails
> > and is now using it incorrectly.
> > 
> > -nick
>