an ominous comment

[Nick Econopouly]

On 07/21, Juan wrote:
> 
> 
> 	Hey. *Now* I get it. 
> 
> 	This mailing list has a lot of tor-tards who are apologists of
> 	the pentagon's propaganda and spying efforts. 
> 
> 	It has people who say that the NSA does good things (coderman)
It is child's thinking to think that the NSA only does bad things. You
can think of the Govt. as fundamentally bad or evil or whatever but it
simply isn't logical for it to never, say, thwart a legitimate attack
(no "t" word, you're welcome) that it didn't cause. the propaganda you
mention wouldn't work if people, including those working for the govt.,
thought that the govt. wasn't working to solve the problem. The govt HAS
to do good things to retain its legitimacy in enough of its peoples'
eyes.

The US government does not keep its power over its citizens with
just brute force and propaganda. It is a complex social relationship,
and yes a great deal of propaganda is involved. But it is not
totalitarian the way you frame it. It is not like a children's movie
where the villians are all ugly and you can tell they are villians just
from the way they look and talk. The policeman, the marine dude, and
even the politician or CIA official came from some family and applied
for the job because it was considered an acceptable way to make a living
and contribute to society. They are not all evil. It doesn't matter if
the nasty recipe of them all mixed together makes the USA cause/commit
atrocities, it's simplistic and basically false to act like every one of
these USians is evil. 

By killing these kinds of discussions with your delusional,
short-man-syndrome arguments, you are contributing to the problem. Think
of the disgruntled senator or NSA worker who is reading this list, and
finds they agree with our stuff. now, instead of being fascinated by
some of the other posts that were actually about cryptography, like
decentralized social nets, etc, they are clicking away because of your
trolling.

Actually, to be honest, you are serving the NSA more than anyone on this
list, even the "spies". When it has been deserted because it resembles
the comments section of a youtube video, they will have you to thank.

Also, you guys really think there is an NSA-man personally
reading this list, looking for dissedents? Why would they waste their
time on this shit? The only ones subverting it are the most hardcore
cypherpunks here, who act like pretty much every free cryptography
program is US propaganda somehow. If juan is an agent, he is doing his
job very well.

Many people in the govt. think they are doing good, and to be honest a
good deal of them are. This coming from someone who thinks healthy society could
exist without a government. 

Citizens think the government is on their side too, and it's not that
they are simply brainwashed. There are no mandatory telivision hours
where you have to watch govt propaganda, the two main sources of it are
in the msm (TV), and at school while the child grows up. It isn't north
korea, or 1984.The citizens
don't feel forced, most of them, and it's because the government has
this habit of NOT being an evil, creepy death cult most of the time. The
bad stuff happens away from the public view including the stuff y'all
have mentioned like the CIA mercenary armies and fiddling with regimes
after WWII.
> 
> 	It has apologists of the US marines. 
> 
> 	It has high ranking scumbags from the CIA.
> 
> 	It has commie 'anarchists' who are offended by (and would love
> 	to silence) people who badmouth the marines' apologists. 
False. I wouldn't have interjected because then I am contributing to the
problems of this mailing list, but don't keep telling fabrications about
me please.

Literally every statement in that sentance is a lie about me. Not cool.
> 
> 	And NOW it also has a google and cloud apologist. Welcome
> 	Stephen =) You are yet another reason to distrust the FLOSS movement and
> 	its bloatware.

It's amusing how Juan picked up the "apologist" term from my emails and
is now using it incorrectly.

-nick