an ominous comment

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 7/21/15, Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
> On 7/20/15 10:32 PM, Juan wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:36:57 -0700
>> "Stephen D. Williams" <sdw at lig.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/20/15 9:07 PM, Juan wrote:
>>>> 	Hey. *Now* I get it.
>>>>
>>>> 	This mailing list has a lot of tor-tards who are apologists
>>>> of the pentagon's propaganda and spying efforts.
>>> Are you saying that the Pentagon is never good or useful?  Nor are
>>> any of their spying efforts?
>> 	Are you saying the pentagon is good and useful?
>
> The Pentagon et al are protecting a large portion of the world from being
> overrun.  Nobody else will do it.

Damn! From Russia and China yeah? Wow. What a mindset.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

"The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow
of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change") without
the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are
tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)."

I grant they seem to be doing ... something. Here's the table of
contents from that wiki page:

Contents
    1 Cold War
        1.1 Syria 1949
        1.2 Iran 1953
        1.3 Guatemala 1954
        1.4 Tibet 1955–70s
        1.5 Indonesia 1958
        1.6 Cuba 1959
        1.7 Iraq 1960–63
        1.8 Democratic Republic of the Congo 1960–65
        1.9 Dominican Republic 1961
        1.10 South Vietnam 1963
        1.11 Brazil 1964
        1.12 Chile 1970–73
        1.13 Afghanistan 1979–89
        1.14 Turkey 1980
        1.15 Poland 1980–89
        1.16 Nicaragua 1981–90
            1.16.1 Destablization through CIA assets
            1.16.2 Arming the Contras
    2 Post–Cold War
        2.1 Iraq 1992–96
        2.2 Venezuela 2002
        2.3 Iran 2005–present

Perhaps those are the countries that were going to overrun "us" (never
mind the fact I live in Australia anyway, but damn, what a way of
thinking).

SDW, thank you for being so frank - honest about how you think. It is
educational to me in a good way. Part of the difference is perhaps
that I am not living in the USA, so I look inwards to your government
and agencies, not outwards.


>>> when they don't determine their goals or rules of
>>> engagement?  Their job is to be a bad ass tool, the proverbial big
>>> stick.  It is someone else's job to decide how to use that tool.
>>> Marines don't kill people, politicians using Marines kill people.
>>> Err, something like that.
>>
>> 	Marines and other 'military personnel' murder people when
>> 	'ordered' to. They are the worst scumbags on earth.
>>
>> 	Politicians are morally responsible. The military are morally
>> 	and materially responsible.
>
> Are police always bad too?
>
>> ...
>> Is everyone from the CIA scumbags by definition?
>> 	Yes.
>
> Whatever you gotta believe.
> Most of their job is to understand the world,

:)

Interesting way of "understanding" the world - 'regime change' is
about as polite a way the current empire can couch its predominant
activity since WWII.


> publishing both a nice public database and the
> presidential daily brief (today's news).  And to consult with the President
> as need so that hopefully reasonably intelligent
> decisions are made, but that depends on the intelligence of the current
> president.

Sounds like you're focusing on the small stuff, the little "local"
political show. And a show it is, and apparently quite effective...

>>> What's your alternative to all of these things?  If you really are
>>> into security in any sense, you should be able to explain what
>>> security exposures moderating or eliminating those entities would
>>> cause and what you would advocate to replace them.
>>
>> 	Are you talking about the US military?
> And FBI, CIA, State, Google, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm offended in various ways by a lot of what happened in the past,
>>> often in organizations like DOJ, FBI, etc. that should have known
>>> better.
>> 	Should they? Looks like you don't know what government is.
> Wha?
>>
>>
>>
>>> I would even say that a lot of government employees and
>>> contractors seem to have got away with a lot of things they shouldn't
>>> have.  But that doesn't mean that any of those organizations are
>>> fundamentally evil and aren't almost completely staffed by
>>> intelligent, respectable people.
>> 	
>> 	LOL. So, how much trolling should I let you get away with?
>>
>> 	Worthless murdering scumbags are 'respectable' people and not
>> 	'fundamentally evil'. Sure. Maybe they are 'accidentally'
>> 	evil?
>
> DOJ, Treasury, State, HHS, etc. are filled with worthless murdering
> scumbags?

Time to wake up. You evidently need to do more research. The balance
of good vs. evil, of the once mighty USA, is well and truly tipped in
favour of despotism and cronyism at this point in history. Very
unfortunately. And notwithstanding the good remnant who do remain
actually within the system (as insignificant and ineffective as they
are to effecting good into the world).

Greece. Rome. Persia. British Empire. USA.

Every empire falls. USA has fallen, it just can't quite see the
reality of this yet.


> There are certain people, Marines et al, who are trained to be very lethal.
> Sucks to need that, but being anything less than the
> strongest & baddest isn't an option for the US.  They are concentrated,
> supposed to be carefully deployed and directed. Create
> people like that from the subset of people who want to be like that and a
> few are going to go off the rails occasionally. That's a
> bummer, and needs to be constantly protected against, but there's no obvious
> alternative.
>
> The US is the least imperialist top superpower that ever existed. Still not
> perfect, but better than all the rest.

"No better than all the rest". Fixed that for you.

The record is abysmal. USA is "morally" (on an international political
and death-toll level) and financially bankrupt.

I just pray that the end of USA's grab for global hegemony means a
long lasting multi-polar world, and not a new imperialist Chinese
"empire regime".


>> 	How about they 'accidentally' beat you to a pulp and then feed
>> 	you to the pigs? Just as an innocent mistake of course...
>
> Oh kay.  Are  you off your meds?

You're missing the point. "Regime change" means if you're in their
way, your life ends. Time for you to do some history lessons. Because
you feel safe (you're one of the "good guys" right?), you don't see
the problem, and you therefore have difficulty hearing the message.


>>> Anyway, if you're still in the rebelling against authority stage,
>>> fine, have fun.  Good luck with that.  In the US, government wise,
>>> the people are the authority
>> 	Really? That's an interesting concept. How many lsd doses do
>> 	you need in order to reach the parallel universe where that
>> 	is reality? Because in this universe, it isn't.
>
> You haven't been watching long or closely enough.  Things have changed
> a lot in the US in my lifetime, and it's only speeding up.

Sadly, individual liberty was not respected enough to capture the
sanction of foreign thinkers. I'm being extraordinarily conservative
in my words here...

>>> , their own authority in essence, it just
>>> may take a long time for that to play out in a given area.
>> 	Sure. That's how jesus planned it all.
>
> Nonsense again.
>
>>
>>>   In some
>>> ways, this is also true for companies, with some nuance.
>>>
>>> sdw
>>>
>
> sdw