cypherpunks Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11

John Elicker jwelicker@gmail.com
Thu Jan 8 10:04:32 PST 2015


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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL] (grarpamp)
>    2. Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL] (Cathal (Phone))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 04:26:15 -0500
> From: grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>
> To: cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
> Message-ID:
>         <CAD2Ti2_=
> de+t7C3swNoJW9jx8kGJu9P2M_1bhauZ9P3xHvf30Q@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Ted Smith <tedks@riseup.net> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2015-01-07 at 11:33 +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> >> The GPL acknowledges this by forbidding suits within the scope of the
> >> work (I think: GPL experts on-list?), preventing E3 from occurring.
> >> Other licenses often take steps in this direction, but the
> >> ultra-short
> >> "friendly and permissive" licenses usually don't
>
> Probably because their model and vision is different, they're
> not really out to modify the world beyond saying "here you
> go, it's free", only out to modify the code, so they've little
> interest in legal longtexts or lawyers.
>
> >> terse and legally unenforceable way that they might as well not be.
> >
> > The GPLv3+ contains this sort of patent protection
>
> Section 10, last paragraph, last part. Don't know if that has been tested
> in court as other parts have been in the news. And all of paragraph 11,
> which grants patents.
>
> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
>
> >> Freedom is not merely defined in law but in experience, and simply
> >> removing explicit limitations on freedom (copyleft licenses) does not
> >> mean that the total freedom in the world has increased.
> >
> > BSD advocates, I think, are not interested in total freedom in the
> > world. This is a CONSEQUENCE or OUTCOME of a choice, not the choice
> > itself.
>
> > boils down to consequentialist morals on the GPL side, and deontological
> > or rule-based morals on the BSD side.
>
> Yes, depends on definition of freedom. Unfortunately GPL and BSD people
> seem define that differently.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 10:40:37 +0000
> From: "Cathal (Phone)" <cathalgarvey@cathalgarvey.me>
> To: grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>, cypherpunks@cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
> Message-ID: <249E482B-33E1-4653-B035-8D06B083F6AB@cathalgarvey.me>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I don't think it's unfortunate, I think it's complementary. GPL is
> valuable for trailblazing and stamping.out new territory because it
> prevents E3, BSD is valuable because it helps shitty tech companies migrate
> to standards that aren't total snakeoil. Between the two, the world
> improves. Obviously I think GPL is better and more important, but that
> doesn't mean I disparage or undervalue other open work.
>
> On 8 January 2015 09:26:15 GMT+00:00, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Ted Smith <tedks@riseup.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2015-01-07 at 11:33 +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> >>> The GPL acknowledges this by forbidding suits within the scope of
> >the
> >>> work (I think: GPL experts on-list?), preventing E3 from occurring.
> >>> Other licenses often take steps in this direction, but the
> >>> ultra-short
> >>> "friendly and permissive" licenses usually don't
> >
> >Probably because their model and vision is different, they're
> >not really out to modify the world beyond saying "here you
> >go, it's free", only out to modify the code, so they've little
> >interest in legal longtexts or lawyers.
> >
> >>> terse and legally unenforceable way that they might as well not be.
> >>
> >> The GPLv3+ contains this sort of patent protection
> >
> >Section 10, last paragraph, last part. Don't know if that has been
> >tested
> >in court as other parts have been in the news. And all of paragraph 11,
> >which grants patents.
> >
> >https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
> >
> >>> Freedom is not merely defined in law but in experience, and simply
> >>> removing explicit limitations on freedom (copyleft licenses) does
> >not
> >>> mean that the total freedom in the world has increased.
> >>
> >> BSD advocates, I think, are not interested in total freedom in the
> >> world. This is a CONSEQUENCE or OUTCOME of a choice, not the choice
> >> itself.
> >
> >> boils down to consequentialist morals on the GPL side, and
> >deontological
> >> or rule-based morals on the BSD side.
> >
> >Yes, depends on definition of freedom. Unfortunately GPL and BSD people
> >seem define that differently.
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11
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