Cypherpunks for Office [Edu/corp giving personal information to NSA/whoever]

[Cathal Garvey]

> When one thinks about it, it makes sense. On some level the Greens
> and PP have similar core values: protecting the commons --
> be it environmental, or digital. They cooperate closely on several
> issues in the EU already, and yet go to elections separately.

Sure, but the greens are fairly anti-evidence, whereas I see a lot more
focus on evidence-based policy in the pirate parties. If you asked the
greens to adopt evidence-based policy, they'd implode because they'd
have to accept nuclear and GE, and abandon pushing stupid things like
homeopathy to state medical boards.

There is a growing rebellion within the green movement, I think; I've
spoken to senior greens recently who are preparing to start pushing
evidence based green policy, but it'll be a longer journey; they have to
warm up their voting base to the idea or they simply die. Most of their
voters are die-hard organics-and-ear-candles greenpeace-donating
hippies, the genuine environmentalists who understand the basics
of..well, reality..are in the minority.

OTOH the pirate parties (who, let's remember, are technically part of
the EU Greens meta-party), in a debate, could pull out statistics and
scientific studies backing their positions; it made it difficult to
discard their arguments or to take the other guy's position without
seeming like a bought politician (of course, the bought politicians did
anyway).

And yea; major parties are now taking the PP line. Even Neelie Kroes, an
EU Commissioner, is coming out and delivering speeches on how we
criminalise normal activity by making "piracy" illegal.

So they may share a lot, but I don't think the two are compatible yet.
Soon, I hope; I'd like to resume calling myself a green without being
regarded as someone who supports falsified research, romanticises
subsistence farming, and rejects every possible solution that features
words with more than two syllables.

Long live the pirates! ;)
Cathal

On 14/07/14 06:57, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia niedziela, 13 lipca 2014 23:18:29 grarpamp pisze:
>> On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 5:35 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl>
>> wrote:
>>> Dnia sobota, 12 lipca 2014 18:15:53 nicolasbourbaki at riseup.net
>>> pisze:
>>>> The Pirate Party and Cypherpunks party are populous movements
>>> 
>>> I couldn't agree more, and the sad state of Pirate Party here in
>>> Poland: Same shit is going on in Germany and Sweden, AFAIK.
>>> Pirate Party movement is in deep crisis in Europe.
>> 
>> Forgetting the actual failures in execution, you're simply not
>> going to gain much public acceptance (votes) among the masses, or
>> earn influence by them, by calling yourselves the 'pirate' or
>> 'punks' party. Well, except by luck and whim. At least call
>> yourselves something relatively benign on the books so that you can
>> then choose to carry whatever banner suits each audience.
> 
> I disagree. The Pirate Party got a lot of media attention thanks to
> the name, and got a strong support in the beginning. The current
> crisis is not due to the name, but due to the fact the PP abandoned
> quite a lot of their original core issues (filesharing, data
> protection, privacy, etc).
> 
>> Disruption, when you have insufficient force outright, implies
>> subterfuge and sleight of hand. Get deeper.
> 
> But the PP created a hell of a disruption. Some big parties today
> have integrated some elements of the original PP platform into their
> programmes, which is a success regardless of what happens with PP
> now.
> 
> However, I'm a big supporter of the idea of creating a single, strong
> Commons Party, assimilating the Greens and the Pirate Parties across
> Europe (and further) into a single force.
> 
> When one thinks about it, it makes sense. On some level the Greens
> and PP have similar core values: protecting the commons -- be it
> environmental, or digital. They cooperate closely on several issues
> in the EU already, and yet go to elections separately.
> 

-- 
T: @onetruecathal, @IndieBBDNA
P: +353876363185
W: http://indiebiotech.com
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