[tor-talk] [OT] deleting publicly posted content

grarpamp grarpamp at gmail.com
Fri Aug 8 16:19:54 PDT 2014

On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Geoff Down <geoffdown at fastmail.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014, at 01:07 PM, krishna e bera wrote:
>> There is no inherent "right to forget" anything that ever happens in
>> public, because that would require invading people's minds and archives.
>>  Court decisions requiring Google to delete correct information from
>> search results are misguided - if anything they should require fuller
>> search results showing the context and followup events (for example,
>> information that may have exonerated the persons in question).
>> Archives that are not subject to jurisdictional or changing legal
>> currents, are a good use case for Tor hidden services.
>  We have the right to ephemeral conversation, even in public.
> Before mass surveillance and recording became possible, that right was
> respected.
> The new laws attempt to restore that right.

Before, it was a subconscious unthought mode of inter conduct (if not a firmly
developed expectation) as outcome of natural limiting circumstances...
ie: it wasn't possible to recorde peoples lives, so the context or concept was
not thought among people. Just some limited and expensive gov't tax, census,
bank type systems.Then cheap computers everywhere hit and the nazis began
collecting in mass again. The new laws are a restoration of
expectation in the form of
an enforceable right, which is now necessary form to do it against the
lack of natural
limit. The laws are not even close to restoring the formal mode/expectation, and
the abuse of imbedding, collection, using and sharing without explicit
permission and
policy based release from the principal is abhorrent to the former
natural way in
which they would conduct. Society is slower than data and must exert its control
over it and its greed until it has developed to handle such thoughts.

Beyond even any reasonable 'need', phone companies maintaining *decades*
of CDR's, CC purchases, and CL *not* 'deleting' posts are all equal evils. Turns
out phone companies *gave* the metas to govt's and whoever else for whatever
use internal and external via chains of weak or strong MOU's, secrets, etc. Now
what exactly do you think content mines like CL, your mail, your facebook are
doing with your content??? Hint: much worse. It's hugely unethical to the person
and society to collect, keep this, let alone process and do whatever
with it. It's
faster than expectation. There is an inherent ethical right to respect
the society
and principal person, especially if you are faster. That includes
forgetting and not
even [ab]using them in the first place. Otherwise you are basically
stealing lunch
money from retards. That's bad.

There's also distinct differences between the service itself doing the
now very often) unexpected or contrary to 'delete' recording, and
public recording
and mining contexts, ethics, etc. Altavista was nice, but did society
really need it
grown into the GoogleMine? GeoCities --> FaceBookMine? Who will honor your
request to delete yourself from old 'non-service-made' public
geocities/usenet archives
today, from facebook archive 30yr from now? We are still slow and
stupid, particularly
in hindsight, therefore in a digital age we need now encode that
right... just as we had
been natural forgotten with time, physically moving, and new
associations before then.
And to encode not to keep... because we are too slow to make that
decision right now.

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