HTML List Abuse (was: "please ignore: this is only a test")
Al Billings
albill at openbuddha.com
Fri Oct 18 20:20:43 PDT 2013
Who cares? That's a lot of words about a non-issue.
—
http://makehacklearn.org
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 8:16 PM, brian carroll <electromagnetize at gmail.com>
wrote:
> i somewhat understand the situation thanks to feedback...
> the problems here involve a broken pc and porting texts
> from one platform into Gmail, where formatting errors and
> line wrap issues exist, thus unreliable rendering of emails.
> since the list does not send me a copy of my own posts,
> the archives in plain text are what i see as to the filetype,
> not realizing it may be rendered as HTML email elsewhere,
> because data only appears in plain text anywhere i see it
> this whole time i never figured it was about my posts due
> to this, unless somehow MINE attachments were what
> was referenced - yet only HTML was repeatedly scolded.
> in approximately two months, looking at emails, i have
> only seen a few examples of HTML email that i recognize,
> mainly because of formatted or colored text, and did not
> connect this with the *scrubbing* of the HTML content,
> associated with the way the email is being processed
> by the list management software -- which i thought is
> neutralizing the HTML formatting before it goes out
> thus, if there is a setting to receive plain text, why not
> subscribe to that option, for that situation, i do not yet
> comprehend what is going on as these posts render
> in mailboxes elsewhere, if they are indeed HTML or it
> just involves a footer with links to the scrubbed html
> and associated attachments, aka multipart MIME (?)
> i tested plain text resend (locally) of the last file and
> it renders Unicode ok, so will try that approach though
> mystery formatting issues persist with Gmail (and, as
> an indication of deterioration of usability, they recently
> removed 'translate' from Google search, so downgrading
> functionality in email also seems likely, with formatting
> and limited reply or other control over email content)...
> that said, i do not know (for lack of getting a copy of
> emails myself) if graphics are sent out as attachments
> or scrubbed and archived on the list (which i assumed,
> given the footer attachment data). the reason for not
> direct linking everything is to keep a copy in archive,
> in case i delete drop-box, so the essays have basic
> content for a few ideas requiring of some diagrams.
> if that multipart MIME attachment is the issue, is
> it not possible to somehow 'not view attachments'
> if they are sent out, or filter such messages, versus
> stop visual messaging of relevance to list content,
> because someone somewhere does not want that,
> and it is a potential security threat if 'weaponized',
> in that it is a way of attacking through delivery, etc
> what is a forum without ideas, how much security
> to protect what, security talk about security tech
> yet no conceptualization beyond those boundaries,
> like what is crypto, what are the concepts, where
> are various peoples understandings and interests,
> and might some visual information help assist the
> conceptual issues, or is it text-only, no imagery.
> because then it is just not worth it, trying to share
> new views and ideas about issues of crypto today
> not everything fits into text or a 77 character line width.
> these tools suck for communicating and sharing ideas.
> it is self-punishing even to try to share ideas online.
> everything goes against viewpoints that are not already
> agreed upon as part of the existing perspective. it takes
> and requires a significant effort to build up an alternative
> model and this requires some additional visual data to
> make points or frameworks otherwise not possible in
> text alone, and things are beyond Lynx interfaces as
> an email exchange scenario, to limit exchange to those
> parameters is perhaps too limiting even, unless what is
> said here is supposed to be secure in some way that
> i do not comprehend, like this data is under attack
> maybe i just do not get it, what the issues are.
> are online forums not to communicate ideas and
> while mobile and other platforms exist, there are
> many examples in code of how data is ported to
> those interfaces, not determined by it, because it
> is a different set of requirements, ex: m.mobile.tld
> 1) will try to send plain text, if formatting is retained,
> this will include a few attachments for the list archive
> 2) MIME-footer scenario will continue. unknown if these
> images go out to everyone- my assumption is that they
> went directly to the list archive: scrubbed with HTML...
> 2a) if attachments go out to list members, is there is a
> way to choose not to receive them, via list software,
> 2b) if images go straight to archive is there any issue
> 3) is there disagreement on attachments. no images
> and i am gone, cannot communicate the ideas. i can
> Dropbox them-- never meant to impose the imagery
> on every mailbox, especially if a security threat. yet
> it seems more secure to email than Dropbox them,
> potentially, if somehow the file was remote altered
> while stored static. assumed a central list archive
> was holding imagery via the scrubbing process.
> 4) what would resolve the issues... i do not see how to
> avoid multipart MIME footers with image attachments,
> yet perhaps however many list member should have
> to goto an URL to retrieve attached image content than
> have it arrive with the email. i am a believer in the text
> + image approach for emails, i think it is too low a limit
> on communication to take out visuals in basic exchange
> because much more can be communicated w/ diagrams.
> unfortunately everything is against this, even in-line images
> are no longer an option in email and webmail software...
> thus forcing text-only, sign-based, linearity like this
> feedback?
> p.s. used to ASCII diagram extensively yet no longer
> have tools able to control monospace fonts this way.
> any pointers to online resources for creating technical
> diagrams using ascii for email communications and the
> settings needed greatly appreciated. saw this online
> documentation the other day and its formatting is ideal,
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-prismproof-trust-00
> why is it so impossible to get that kind of control over text,
> and how do technical diagrams get rendered in ASCII (no
> examples here, rare to encounter them) and where to
> learn how to do this. not online ASCII-image translators
> and instead, are there tools and settings for text editors
> or does Gmail limit this from happening. tried Outlook
> yet it is insane and unusable. cannot find the new mail
> button even. fake whois. sick software experimentation.
> Eugen Leitl wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 08:43:01PM -0500, brian carroll wrote:
>> > hello. as far as i know, this is not HTML, it is a unicode message.
>>
>> It was a multipart message:
>>
>> I 1 <no description> [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.9K]
>> I 2 ├─><no description> [text/plain, 7bit, utf-8, 1.2K]
>> I 3 └─><no description> [text/html, quoted, utf-8, 2.5K]
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