Amen.

   And as an additional claim of bullshit, to say that corporations, and
   in turn the people of the industrial world, are not controlled by
   government is to completely deny the fact that the federal government
   is partly designed to, and spends most of it's energy on, regulating
   commerce. Read this:

   [1]http://www.libertyhaven.com/regulationandpropertyrights/bankingmoney
   orfinance/reforminggov.shtml

   And while you are at it, you may want to check out a few government
   sites:

   [2]http://www.fcc.gov (my least fave)
   [3]http://www.usdoj.gov/
   [4]http://www.fbi.gov/
   [5]http://www.federalreserve.gov/
   [6]http://www.nsa.gov/
   [7]http://www.faa.gov/
   [8]http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/
   [9]http://www.fra.dot.gov/welcome.html
   [10]http://www.hcfa.gov/

   That's just a few (the most egregious offenders in poor regulation),
   but if you want more, I can send them to you. I'm not saying
   corporations do not exert control over our everyday lives. My point is,
   as much as I too like William Gibson, and as much as I was hoping Nader
   would get his requisite percentage of the popular vote and stir up some
   trouble, corporations simply do not run things by themselves. The
   government does far more to control us (and just generally piss in our
   rice crispies) than corporations. Gauranteed.

   ok,
   Rush

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Jim Choate [[11]mailto:ravage@einstein.ssz.com]
   Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 3:21 PM
   To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
   Subject: Re: Jim Bell arrested documents online (fwd)

   At 09:58 PM 11/23/00 -0500, Anonymous wrote:

   >Apparently because businesses do not use guns.
   >
   >They are missing the fact that majority of people never encounter/use
   >guns in their life, and that the principal way of behavioural control
   >is propaganda/ideology. Most of the people in the industrial world are
   >directly and tightly controlled by corporations, not governments.

   Bullshit on all points.

   If you don't believe businesses don't use guns then you should check
   around. Hell, my local grocery has an armed guard at the front entrance
   when it's open (and other times I suspect). Tell this to your local
   mid-level drug dealer.

   Most people encounter a gun at least daily within say 50 ft. of their
   person, thought they may not be aware of it or individualy handle it.

   Most people, industrial country or not, are controlled by the beliefs
   they
   hold and what they believe is acceptable. Corporations and governments
   are
   as much a victim of this as the individual is.


   ____________________________________________________________________

                        He is able who thinks he is able.

                                              Buddha

          The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
          Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
          www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                              -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

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References

   1. http://www.libertyhaven.com/regulationandpropertyrights/bankingmoneyorfinance/reforminggov.shtml
   2. http://www.fcc.gov/
   3. http://www.usdoj.gov/
   4. http://www.fbi.gov/
   5. http://www.federalreserve.gov/
   6. http://www.nsa.gov/
   7. http://www.faa.gov/
   8. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/
   9. http://www.fra.dot.gov/welcome.html
  10. http://www.hcfa.gov/
  11. mailto:ravage@einstein.ssz.com