No subject

jim bell jdb10987 at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 10 11:45:29 PST 2019 

mail.com>; "akosba at cs.umd.edu" <akosba at cs.umd.edu>; Cpunks List <cypherpunk=
s at cpunks.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:14 AM
Subject: Your paper on criminal contracts

Dear Professors Juels (http://www.arijuels.com/) and Shi (runting at gmail.com=
), and Ahmed Kosba =C2=A0akosba at cs.umd.edu :=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I've found a refe=
rence to your recent paper, http://www.initc3.org/publications.html.=C2=A0 =
"The Ring of Gyges: Using Smart Contracts for Crime."=C2=A0=C2=A0 Perhaps y=
ou are not aware, but 20 years ago (1995-6) I wrote an essay on a very simi=
lar subject. =C2=A0I called it "Assassination Politics". =C2=A0cryptome.org=
/ap.htm . =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jim Bell





  
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:13px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4959" dir=3D"ltr"><span=
 id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4958">Your paper:    <a href=3D=
"https://www.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&rct=3Dj&q=3D&esrc=3Ds&so=
urce=3Dweb&cd=3D3&cad=3Drja&uact=3D8&ved=3D0CCsQFjACahUKEwi=
F_b_E7IfIAhWQmIgKHc_tAuY&url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.arijuels.com%2Fwp-conte=
nt%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fpublic_gyges.pdf&usg=3DAFQjCNHOBvCYwJ5Aq0CmH=
TOY53sGdRs5Sw&sig2=3DL_lh-zCi016f7Y3jbKVKlQ&bvm=3Dbv.103073922,d.cG=
U" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_8900">https://www.google.com/url?sa=3Dt=
&rct=3Dj&q=3D&esrc=3Ds&source=3Dweb&cd=3D3&cad=3Drj=
a&uact=3D8&ved=3D0CCsQFjACahUKEwiF_b_E7IfIAhWQmIgKHc_tAuY&url=
=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.arijuels.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fpubli=
c_gyges.pdf&usg=3DAFQjCNHOBvCYwJ5Aq0CmHTOY53sGdRs5Sw&sig2=3DL_lh-zC=
i016f7Y3jbKVKlQ&bvm=3Dbv.103073922,d.cGU</a></span></div><div id=3D"yui=
_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4959" dir=3D"ltr"><span><br></span></div><div id=3D=
"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4959" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442=
825109502_8941">Thank you for your reply, Dr. Juels, </span></div><div=
 id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5059"><span><br></span></div><div id=3D"y=
ui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_144282=
5109502_5057">Once you read my essay, I think you will understand my concer=
n about the motivation for your research, and its potential consequences. &=
nbsp; Superficially, and certainly to someone unfamiliar with my idea (Assa=
ssination Politics essay),  I'm sure it sounds useful and indeed benef=
icial to try to prevent the construction and operation of "criminal contrac=
ts".   One problem that I see, as a lifetime libertarian, is that "cri=
minal" may mean no more than "what the government wants to ban" rather than=
 an actual victim crime.  Worse, governments are powerfully motivated =
to prevent developments that will someday likely destroy them.</span></div>=
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1=
442825109502_5503" class=3D"">I suggest that you study the analyses of Bob =
Vroman  <a href=3D"http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.t=
cl?msg_id=3D009ape" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5754">http://www.green=
spun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=3D009ape</a>    , &n=
bsp;  <a href=3D"http://www.mail-archive.com/cypherpunks-moderated@min=
der.net/msg02068.html" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6269">http://www.ma=
il-archive.com/cypherpunks-moderated at minder.net/msg02068.html</a>   &n=
bsp; and  of Bob Murphy,  </span><span style=3D"font-size: small;=
 font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 20.2222px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_=
1_1442825109502_5851" class=3D"">www.anti-state.</span><wbr style=3D"font-s=
ize: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 20.2222px;" id=3D"=
yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5853" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: small=
; font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 20.2222px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0=
_1_1442825109502_5855" class=3D"">com/murphy/</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: small; font-weight: bold; font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-height: 2=
0.2222px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5857" class=3D"">murphy17</span=
><span style=3D"font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif; line-heig=
ht: 20.2222px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5859" class=3D"">.</span><=
span style=3D"font-size: small; font-weight: bold; font-family: arial, sans=
-serif; line-height: 20.2222px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5861" cla=
ss=3D"">html</span>   (although the Murphy essay might not be ava=
ilable, except as an archive.)  as well as by R.  Sukumaran &nbsp=
; <a href=3D"http://www.idsa.in/strategicanalysis/CryptologyDigitalAss=
assinationandtheTerrorismFuturesMarket_rsukumaran_0404.html" id=3D"yui_3_16=
_0_1_1442825109502_5597" style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" cl=
ass=3D"">http://www.idsa.in/strategicanalysis/CryptologyDigitalAssassinatio=
nandtheTerrorismFuturesMarket_rsukumaran_0404.html</a>. </div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3=
_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr">Further, consider<br></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3=
_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr"> <a href=3D"https://github.com=
/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/master/content/anarchism/game-theory-=
anarchism-ii-how-information-can-smash-the-state.md" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_144=
2825109502_6139">https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/ma=
ster/content/anarchism/game-theory-anarchism-ii-how-information-can-smash-t=
he-state.md</a></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr=
"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr"><a href=
=3D"https://c4ss.org/content/1157" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6418">h=
ttps://c4ss.org/content/1157</a><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_144282510=
9502_5058"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058" dir=3D"ltr=
"><a href=3D"http://archive.is/zYH0e" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6562=
" style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">series -- anti-state.com<=
/a><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5058"><br></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6595" dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://www.red=
dit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2jo578/arguments_for_against_insurrec=
tionist_ancapism/" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6678">https://www.reddi=
t.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2jo578/arguments_for_against_insurrecti=
onist_ancapism/</a><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6595" di=
r=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6595" dir=3D"ltr"=
><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6595" dir=3D"ltr">There is=
 a lot more where this comes from.<br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825=
109502_6595" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_65=
95" dir=3D"ltr">Keep in mind that when I wrote the AP essay, technologies s=
uch as Tor, Bitcoin, and especially Ethereum and Augur simply did not exist=
. But today they do, or at least they soon will.  And that, I consider=
 to be an extremely good thing.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_=
6595" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6595" dir=
=3D"ltr">So perhaps you will understand that I consider that trying to prev=
ent _all_ "criminal contracts" from being formed is a major, and indeed dan=
gerous mistake.  While I do not believe that such an effort can ever s=
ucceed, I think it would be best not to try.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1=
442825109502_6595" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109=
502_6595" dir=3D"ltr">          Jim Bell</div><div=
 id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6680"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1=
442825109502_6738"><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, He=
lvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;=
" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4963"> <div style=3D"font-family: Helvet=
icaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-=
size: 16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4962"> <div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D=
"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4961"> <hr size=3D"1" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_144282=
5109502_5198">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_14428251=
09502_4964"> <b id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6555"><span style=3D"font-=
weight:bold;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_6554">From:</span></b> Ari J=
uels <juels at cornell.edu><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To=
:</span></b> jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> <br><b><span style=3D"font=
-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "runting at gmail.com" <runting at gmail.com&gt=
;; "akosba at cs.umd.edu" <akosba at cs.umd.edu> <br> <b><span style=3D"fon=
t-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, September 16, 2015 2:32 PM<br>=
 <b id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5055"><span style=3D"font-weight: bold=
;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5054">Subject:</span></b> Re: Your pape=
r on criminal contracts<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container" i=
d=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4965"><br><div id=3D"yiv5844945283"><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4968">
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4967">
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4966">Dear Mr. Bell,</div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4969"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4970">Thank you for your original not=
e and follow-up. We=E2=80=99re indeed planning to read your essay and cite =
it as appropriate in our next paper revision (slated to come out in January=
).</div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4972">
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4971"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283App=
le-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283Apple-style-sp=
an" face=3D"Calibri"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></font></div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4973"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283App=
le-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283Apple-style-sp=
an" face=3D"Calibri">Yours,</font></font></div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4974"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283App=
le-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283Apple-style-sp=
an" face=3D"Calibri"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></font></div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4975"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283App=
le-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><font class=3D"yiv5844945283Apple-style-sp=
an" face=3D"Calibri">AJ</font></font></div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4976"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4977"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<span id=3D"yiv5844945283OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
</span><div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D"yiv58449452=
83yqt8434586631" id=3D"yiv5844945283yqt23677"><div style=3D"font-family:Cal=
ibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;B=
ORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0i=
n;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt;" i=
d=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4979"></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825=
109502_4984"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_4983"><div style=3D"colo=
r:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Hel=
vetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_=
1_1442825109502_4982"><div id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1442033498384_35=
18" style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, L=
ucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_=
0_1_1442033498384_3517" style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,=
 Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div class=3D=
"yiv5844945283y_msg_container" id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_144203349838=
4_3516"><div id=3D"yiv5844945283"><div id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1442=
033498384_3515"><div id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1442033498384_3514" st=
yle=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetic=
a Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div c=
lass=3D"yiv5844945283yqt0142132509" id=3D"yiv5844945283yqt48324"><div id=3D=
"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3903" style=3D"font-family:Helveti=
caNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-si=
ze:16px;"><div id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3902" style=3D=
"font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande=
, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_=
0_1_1440878565794_3901">
<font id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3908" size=3D"2" face=
=3D"Arial"><b id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3912"><span id=
=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3911" style=3D"font-weight:bold=
;">From:</span></b> jim bell <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:jdb10987 at yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:jdb10987 at ya=
hoo.com">jdb10987 at yahoo.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
<b id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1442033498384_3520"><span id=3D"yiv58449=
45283yui_3_16_0_1_1442033498384_3519" style=3D"font-weight:bold;">To:</span=
></b> "<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:juels at cornell.e=
du" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:juels at cornell.edu">juels at cornell.edu</=
a>" <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:juels at cornell.=
edu" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:juels at cornell.edu" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1=
_1442825109502_4991">juels at cornell.edu</a>>; "<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:runting at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"ma=
ilto:runting at gmail.com">runting at gmail.com</a>"
 <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:runting at gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:runting at gmail.com">runting at gmail.com</a>=
>; "<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:akosba at cs.umd.e=
du" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:akosba at cs.umd.edu">akosba at cs.umd.edu</=
a>" <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:akosba at cs.umd.=
edu" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:akosba at cs.umd.edu">akosba at cs.umd.edu<=
/a>>; Cpunks List <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mail=
to:cypherpunks at cpunks.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:cypherpunks at cpu=
nks.org">cypherpunks at cpunks.org</a>>
<br clear=3D"none">
<b id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1442033498384_3522"><span id=3D"yiv58449=
45283yui_3_16_0_1_1442033498384_3521" style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Sent:</sp=
an></b> Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:14 AM<br clear=3D"none">
<b id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3914"><span id=3D"yiv58449=
45283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3913" style=3D"font-weight:bold;">Subject:<=
/span></b> Your paper on criminal contracts<br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div class=3D"yiv5844945283y_msg_container" id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1=
_1440878565794_3904">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"yiv5844945283">
<div id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3906">
<div id=3D"yiv5844945283yui_3_16_0_1_1440878565794_3905" style=3D"color:#00=
0;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetic=
a, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
Dear Professors Juels (<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank"=
 href=3D"http://www.arijuels.com/" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1442825109502_5046">h=
ttp://www.arijuels.com/</a>) and Shi (<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:runting at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:runting=
@gmail.com">runting at gmail.com</a>), and Ahmed Kosba  <a rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:akosba at cs.umd.edu" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:akosba at cs.umd.edu">akosba at cs.umd.edu</a> :    I've f=
ound a reference
 to your recent paper, <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank"=
 href=3D"http://www.initc3.org/publications.html" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_144282=
5109502_5047">http://www.initc3.org/publications.html</a>.  "The Ring =
of Gyges: Using Smart Contracts for Crime."   Perhaps you are not=
 aware, but 20 years ago (1995-6) I wrote an essay on a very similar
 subject.  I called it "Assassination Politics".  cryptome.org/ap=
.htm .                 Jim Bell</di=
v>
</div>
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