AP Al Qaeda

[gabriel rosenkoetter]

I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you
seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only
replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should
be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't
feed the trolls, but I'm bored.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
> [gr wrote:]
>  >>One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the
>  >>act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right,
>  >>is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point
>  >>already.
> Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy 
> cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.

Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing
US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a
felony in this country. Felony == crime. 

Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal
official, still a felony in the US.

Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke
them according to the legal system under which they chose to
operate, which is, by definition, crime.

Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a
different legal system.

The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made
yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in
the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination
politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US
government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson,
if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be,
and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't
matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the
situation.

The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination
politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution
(no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless
you know something I don't and would care to share it.

> Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? 
> Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas 
> briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.

My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the
only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination.
The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The
assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are
plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no
monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's
see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee
Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.)

The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary
paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail
to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him.
Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater
than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for
assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at
least, it won't do him much
good in prison).

> (you just contradicted yrself btw.)

How so?

> The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get 
> enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.

I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How
many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running
around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you
think.

> Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger
> things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another
> possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.

Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of
remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would
have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die
trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure,
maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for
all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just
searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not
much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then,
now is there?

> KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"

Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a
harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more
interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who
managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the
real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering
you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so
interested in having assassinated.

Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks...

-- 
gabriel rosenkoetter
gr at eclipsed.net