[tahoe-dev] TWN 37
Patrick R McDonald
marlowe at antagonism.org
Mon Sep 3 01:09:08 PDT 2012
Tahoe-LAFS Weekly News, issue number 37, September 3 2012
Welcome to the Tahoe-LAFS Weekly News (TWN). Tahoe-LAFS_ is a secure,
distributed storage system. `View TWN on the web`_ *or* `subscribe to TWN`_.
If you would like to view the "new and improved" TWN, complete with pictures;
please take a `look`_.
.. _Tahoe-LAFS: https://tahoe-lafs.org
.. _View TWN on the web: https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/TahoeLAFSWeeklyNews
.. _subscribe to TWN: https://tahoe-lafs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tahoe-lafs-weekly-news
.. _look: https://tahoe-lafs.org/~marlowe/TWN37.html
Announcement and News
Interview with Brian Warner
This past week, TWN interviewed Brian Warner |brian|. Brian is a member
of the Tahoe-LAFS development team. Brian is currently working on
Accounting which is a major milestone in Tahoe-LAFS. Please thank Brian
for taking the time to provide us with this interview.
Patrick: First, why don't you introduce yourself to our readers, tell us
who you are?
Brian: sure, my name is Brian Warner, I'm a programmer based in San
Francisco. I created the Buildbot many many years ago, and the "EGD"
entropy-gathering daemon before that, I guess those are my two
best-known projects. I worked at AllMyData.com from 2005 to 2009, and
created Tahoe along with Zooko and our coworker Rob Kinninmont. I'm
probably still the author of the majority of the current code, but
that's slowly changing as we get more developers involved. By day, I'm a
developer at Mozilla, working on the Persona (aka BrowserID) project.
Patrick: Currently you are associated with the accounting work. Can you
describe exactly what that is and why our readers will be interested in
the final results?
Brian: Yeah, the goal is to give Tahoe users more visibility into (and
control over) how their data is being stored, and how their server space
is being used. The current system is pretty all-or-nothing: as a server
operator, you can reserve some amount of disk space (and, for the most
part, the server won't use it to hold shares of client data), but you
can't find out that e.g. Alice is using 20GB but Bob is only using 3GB.
Similarly, as a client, you don't have control over where your shares
are placed: they'll be spread uniformly among any server that connects
to your grid, even though you might consider some of those servers to be
The general idea behind the Account project is that each client gets an
identifier (a public key), and each share they put on a server is kept
alive by a lease, which is tagged with their identifier.
Patrick: so accounting would allow me as a server operator to prevent
people from abusing the commons so to speak?
Brian: Right. All leases will have client identifiers: when you enable
"no free riders" mode, the server will reject completely anonymous
clients. To begin with, there will be no connection between the client
identifiers and anything else (names, etc). Servers will just get a
table of "client 123 is using 23GB of space", etc. As a client, you'll
be able to volunteer a "nickname", so the table can say "client 123 (who
calls themselves Alice) is using 23GB". Later, we'll add better UI, so
if you've actually met Alice, and she tells you her ID, that table can
say "client 123 (who you know as Alice) is using 23GB". (technically
speaking, this will be a "petname").
We'll probably start with simple monitoring but then make it possible
for servers to require explicit approval from their admins before
accepting shares from new clients. There are a lot of reasons why you
might hold data for someone else: maybe they're your friend, maybe
they're paying you, maybe they're providing service in kind.
Patrick: Sounds like a much robust system to control the service than is
currently in place. I look forward to it.
Brian: In the long run, we want to make it easy to support lots of
modes: maybe using Bitcoin for purely economic pay-for-storage
transactions, or a form of tit-for-tat barter system where your usage is
limited by how much space you've provided for others.
Yeah, it's been a long road, but I think we're getting closer to finally
implementing the design.
Patrick: When should we expect to see accounting enter the stable
Brian: Oh, that's a good question. I'd like to say 6-12 months, but
given our history with this particular feature, I couldn't make any
promises. The problem is that we keep scaling back the design to make it
easier to implement, and then we discover all sorts of complexity that
means it's twice as hard as we anticipated. Then we talk about it a lot,
then we go away and forget about it for a while, then a few months later
we simplify it some more an try again. I think we're on the 5th or 6th
cycle now, and realistically we probably have another one or two to go
before we get something implementable.
That said, it's likely that we can get some of the basics in place
(simple monitoring of space consumed) in the next six months.
Patrick: Certainly sounds like a fantastic way to start off the new
Brian: Heh, yeah, that'd be a nice holiday present.
Patrick: I will make sure to ask Santa. You were also recently a
release manger for Tahoe-LAFS. What was that like?
Brian: It was fun. I've driven other projects in the past (especially
Buildbot), so most of the work is mechanical: assembling release notes,
checking test results, building tarballs. And we've automated many of
the pieces. (not all of them: my goal is for a simple 'git tag; git
push' to trigger everything else, but we're not there yet). The main
thing about release management is all the "does this feature/bugfix/etc
make it in or not" decisions. That and bossing the other developers
around for a while: trying to get the most important changes completed
early enough so that you can get enough beta coverage to feel confident
in them. I work on other projects (BrowserID, and Firefox, for that
matter) that use a strict periodic "train" model, where the release
happens every N weeks regardless of what features are done: if you don't
get it finished, you miss the train, but that's ok because there's
another one just down the road that you can aim for. I don't think we
have enough developers or momentum (or automation) to use that mode for
Tahoe right now, but given another 6 months of practice, maybe we could
pull it off. For a small project, periodic releases run the risk of
having an empty release when nothing significant has been landed.
Patrick: Wow, that was pretty in depth. Great answer. What is your
favorite part about working on Tahoe-LAFS?
Brian: Hm.. one big part is getting to brainstorm with Zooko and
David-Sarah and the others: talking through a design in realtime is a
lot of fun, and we come at it from such different angles; I always
learn so much from that interaction. It's also great to get to build
something that works "Correctly" (with a capital C), without the dozens
of little assumptions and compromises that break the security of most
other tools. This may sacrifice usability or compatibility, but I'm ok
with building something right and then trying to make it more usable
later (doing it the other way around is a well-explored space). But I
think my favorite part is that this project is starting to influence
others: we're establishing the notion that storing things "in the cloud"
doesn't have to mean giving up control over your security. Sort of
adjusting people's expectations, making them realize they deserve more.
We've got projects like Unhosted out there working on making data
storage independent from application service, Firefox Sync providing
client-side encryption of browser data, and Tarsnap doing client-side
security, all of which are in this family of reducing reliance on the
server's behavior. It's great space to be working in.
Patrick: Okay, two more questions. First what would you like to see TWN
which it isn't doing now and where would you like Tahoe-LAFS to go in
the next year?
Brian: Hm, I guess it'd be fun to have TWN cover some of the questions
that have come up in the development meetings: e.g. recently we've
been talking about whether Accounting should lean towards an
"invitation" model (in which you join a grid by getting invited by
someone/anyone who's already in the grid), or a more
centralized/explicit model (in which one person controls the whole grid,
and adds people by including their public key in a config file). It'd be
great to hear from the wider community what they think about the
different potential models, and TWN might be a better vehicle for that
question than just the tahoe-dev mailing list.
As for Tahoe itself, personally I'm getting more interested in browser
integration (tahoe-as-addon, "lafs://" URLs, web-apps that can store
their runtime state in a tahoe filesystem), and easier grid-management
tools (the "invitation" model, simple Accounting controls). I'd love to
simplify our protocols enough to get developers comfortable with porting
Tahoe to other languages: we used Foolscap because it provided
everything we needed (and because I wrote it) but it's too big, and that
etc. I'm especially eager to get the larger world of web-service
authors (like the Node.js community) interested in Tahoe, or Tahoe-like
systems, to tap into some of the energy building in that space.
Patrick: That would be really cool. Anything else you would like to add
to the interview?
Brian: Nope, just thanks for the time, and thanks for putting so much
energy into our little project. TWN is a great service you provide to
this community. I really appreciate your dedication!
.. |brian| image:: warner.png
:alt: Brian Warner
Company of the Week
The Company of the Week is `Rentanode.nl`_ |rentanode.nl| Rentanode.nl
is a new company based in The Netherlands that offers Tahoe-LAFS
storage service. You use the Tahoe-LAFS client software to encrypt and
upload your data, so you can be sure that the company b Rentanode.nl b
never sees your plaintext or your encryption keys. You can rent multiple
nodes for added fault-tolerance. Pricing starts at b, 5.00/month for 10
`Rentanode.nl was announced`_ by Guido Witmond |witmond| back in June on
the tahoe-dev mailing list and `opened for business on July 31`_. Their
page says "Making reliable backups on the internet is as hard as doing
an engine overhaul but should be as simple as an oil change. And as
afforable." Rentanode.nl accepts payment in either Bitcoin or Euro.
.. |rentanode.nl| image:: rentanode-logo-small.png
.. |witmond| image:: witmond.jpg
:alt: Guido Whitmod
.. _`Rentanode.nl`: https://www.rentanode.nl
.. _`Rentanode.nl was announced`:
.. _`opened for business on July 31`:
bsince 1997b&I've tried lots of hardware/software raid solutions, backup
schemes, and so on, and tahoe-lafs is simply amazingb
Tahoe-LAFS on Twitter
@zooko just saw a Tahoe-LAFS t-shirt wearing pedestrian crossing Duboce
at Guerrero here In SF [`0`_]
@zooko ok, the Tahoe-LAFS t-shirt acknowledgement protocol is settled,
then: "Tahoe-LAFS!" "WHOO!" "WHOO!"+ [`1`_]
.. _`0`: https://twitter.com/gojomo/status/241025836357124097
.. _`1`: https://twitter.com/gojomo/status/241287960622927873
Patches Needing Review of the Week
There are seven (7) ticket still needing review for 1.10.0:
* `#1735`: the banner on the Welcome page saying that a helper is not
configured should not be red
* `#1777`_: cleanups to tests and mutables for 1.10
* `#166`_: command line order is problematic
* `#937`_: 'tahoe run' doesn't work for an introducer node
* `#1539`_: stop putting pkg_resources.require() into .tac files
* `#1159`_: stop using .tac files: make it possible to change appname,
Python package-directory name, perhaps other names
* `#1693`_: flogtool doesn't get automatically provided
There are two (2) tickets still needing review of 1.11.0:
* `#1265`_: New Visualizer is insufficiently labelled/documented (plus
* `#1382`_: immutable peer selection refactoring and enhancements
.. _`#1735`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1735
.. _`#1777`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1777
.. _`#166`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/166
.. _`#937`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/937
.. _`#1539`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1539
.. _`#1159`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1159
.. _`#1693`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1693
.. _`#1265`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1265
.. _`#1382`: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1382
*The Tahoe-LAFS Weekly News is published once a week by The Tahoe-LAFS*
*Software Foundation, President and Treasurer: Peter Secor* |peter|
*. Scribes: Patrick "marlowe" McDonald* |marlowe| *, Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn*
|zooko| *, Editor: Zooko.* `View TWN on the web`_ *or* `subscribe to TWN`_
*. Send your news stories to* `marlowe at antagonism.org`_ *b submission
deadline: Friday night.*
.. _marlowe at antagonism.org: mailto:marlowe at antagonism.org
.. |peter| image:: psecor.jpg
.. |marlowe| image:: marlowe-x75-bw.jpg
.. |zooko| image:: zooko.png
tahoe-dev mailing list
tahoe-dev at tahoe-lafs.org
----- End forwarded message -----
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
More information about the cypherpunks-legacy