[P2P-F] Bitcoin donation

Sepp Hasslberger sepp at lastrega.com
Mon Jan 17 02:40:52 PST 2011

Although I have misgivings about the stability of bitcoin, I support its use. (It's the only thing out there that is completely de-linked from official currencies and from things like precious metals, that is workable for more than just local exchange).

To explain my perplexity on bitcoin stability, I quote from the site cyclonite linked: 

"How much is a Bitcoin worth?

More all the time...

As you can see, over a 4 week period, recently...

The value of  `8?1.00 BTC (one Bitcoin), went from  US$0.06  to  US$0.50  ...within only about 4 weeks.   Yes...   That was an 833% increase in it's value.   Wow."


For me, a currency that is to be widely used, should be stable. Stable means it doesn't go down in value, but it also doesn't go up in value excessively. It should be roughly keeping its value. Going up as much as bitcoin evidently does, is a form of instability that will bring disturbance to a marketplace using bitcoin as its means of exchange. 

This instability could and should be remedied by adjusting the target total of bitcoin creation with an algorithm that takes into account the number of active bitcoin users. As the number of users increases, the total target amount of bitcoins to be created (which currently is fixed at 21,000,000) should increase, slowly creeping up to accomodate the demand of new users for bitcoins, in a way to keep the value of one single coin roughly stable. 

I do not know whether the creators of bitcoin would be willing to do this. 

For me, such an adjustment will be necessary to take bitcoin from experimental status to widely-used alternative means of payment status. 

Kind regards

On Jan 17, 2011, at 4:44 AM, Samuel Rose wrote:

> Cyclonite, personally I am ready to work with bitcoin today, although
> the rest of p2pf may not be, which I'll respect
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Cyclonite <cyclonite at safe-mail.net> wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>> I think there is some kind of misunderstanding here, you do not need to manually generate any kind of public/private keys as with OpenPGP.
>> You can even sign up in a website as mybitcoin.com and start making or receiving donations.
>> In my opinion the best available info for beginners is http://bitcoinme.com. Please take a look and you will get your doubts clear.
>> Best regards,
>> Cyclonite.
>> --
>> Secure Email contact: https://privacybox.de/cyclonite.msg
>> Bitcoin donations jar: 16FVZweaaJLvhAy91oDugqaf84kXiDJ9PG
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
>> To: james burke <lifesized at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>, cyclonite at safe-mail.net, p2p-foundation <p2p-foundation at lists.ourproject.org>, Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com>, Georg Pleger <g.pleger at yahoo.de>
>> Subject: Re: Bitcoin donation
>> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 09:30:23 -0500
>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 5:54 AM, james burke <lifesized at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Michel,
>>>> Yes, I do have a public key, but yet again,
>>>> another nice idea with terrible interaction design and userbility
>>>> - most people have no clue about public private keys, so this keeps it a
>>>> geek thing
>>> I agree, although as far as I can see, the application at least takes
>>> care of this for the user. Still, your point is valid in that some
>>> people may not understand what is happening.
>>> Most of the users of bitcoin now are early adopters, however. So, if
>>> p2pf did support donation via bitcoin, it would be joining an ecology
>>> of early adopters, and would likely only receive donation from those
>>> early adopters.
>>>> - the actual app upon launch is unclear. Where to click, what to do,gah!
>>>> I can't really support this even if it is a p2p solution.
>>>> James
>>> Seems reasonable. If p2pf changes it's mind, I'm willing to
>>> participate in any experiments with bitcoin
>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> James,
>>>>> do you have a public key?
>>>>> Michel
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> This is a p2p application, so we would need to post your's or James's
>>>>>> public key, and people who want to donate bitcoins would need then
>>>>>> send you the bitcoins by downloading the bitcoin application and
>>>>>> sending it to you
>>>>>> quote:
>>>>>> "Bitcoin utilizes public/private key digital signatures (ECDSA). A
>>>>>> coin has its owner's public key on it. When a coin is transferred from
>>>>>> user A to user B, A adds Bbs public key to the coin and signs it with
>>>>>> his own private key. Now B owns the coin and can transfer it further.
>>>>>> To prevent A from transferring the already used coin to another user
>>>>>> C, a public list of all the previous transactions is collectively
>>>>>> maintained by the network of Bitcoin nodes, and before each
>>>>>> transaction the coinbs unusedness will be checked."
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Michel Bauwens
>>>>>> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Sam, can you help us install it on the wiki and blog?
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've downloaded and installed and am game to try with p2pf network
>>>>>>>> folks.
>>>>>>>> This could actually be really useful for lots of local economy efforts
>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 5:32 AM, Michel Bauwens
>>>>>>>> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear,
>>>>>>>>> thanks a lot for this email,
>>>>>>>>> it seems that it is worthwhile for us to experiment with this, but I
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> forward this to James Burke for possible implementation
>>>>>>>>> James, I think we should do this, what do  you think?
>>>>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:42 PM, <cyclonite at safe-mail.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>>>>>> Dear friends,
>>>>>>>>>> I have been looking in your site for any reference to Bitcoin for
>>>>>>>>>> making a
>>>>>>>>>> small donation.
>>>>>>>>>> As  you  probably  know,  Bitcoin  (bitcoin.org)  is  a  new kind
>>>>>>>>>> of a
>>>>>>>>>> P2P
>>>>>>>>>> crypto-currency in which the general public can  make donations,
>>>>>>>>>> macro
>>>>>>>>>>  or
>>>>>>>>>> micropayments   in  a  secure  and   anonymous  way  usually
>>>>>>>>>>  without
>>>>>>>>>>  any
>>>>>>>>>> transaction fee involved.
>>>>>>>>>> You can change Bitcoins for real money (eg: https://mtgox.com) or
>>>>>>>>>> purchase
>>>>>>>>>> services or goods in an increasing number of sites.
>>>>>>>>>> In  order to  receive  donations you  only have  to  publish  one
>>>>>>>>>>  of
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> accounts  as generated  by the  bitcoin client  or any specialized
>>>>>>>>>> bitcoin
>>>>>>>>>> trader (eg: mybitcoin.com).
>>>>>>>>>> Currently  some   projects  as  www.i2p2.de,
>>>>>>>>>>  www.torrentservers.net
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> organizations like the EFF are accepting donations.
>>>>>>>>>> In  my  opinion  this  kind  of decentralized solution without the
>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> trust  any  middlemen  is much better than  Paypal, Visa or
>>>>>>>>>> Mastercard
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> security-minded people as most of your donors are.
>>>>>>>>>> If  you  are  interested in  pushing  Bitcoin forward,  do not
>>>>>>>>>> hesitate
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> contact me if you have any doubt.
>>>>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>>>>> Cyclonite

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