Decentralizing the Internet So Big Brother Can’t Find You

Eugen Leitl eugen at
Fri Feb 18 00:35:53 PST 2011

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 03:22:49PM -0600, J.A. Terranson wrote:

> I'm tired of hearing the current calls for "mesh networks" myself. As you 
> point out, they are *incredibly* complex, and these "wall-wart servers" 
> aren't going to implement that kind of thing IMO.  Christ, large ISPs 

I fail to see where they're mentioning the word mesh at all.
If I would do it, I would just package Tor, Tahoe-LAFS, I2P
and maybe a couple other select goodies (tinc, opportunistic
encryption, whatever), and put it on the residential Internet.

If you recall I repeatedly suggested that here and elsewhere,
to the overwhelming sound of crickets.

> still have trouble with simple IP, and they have "trained [or] experienced 
> 'engineers'".  It's a silly call to arms at this point.

If you're talking mesh, one of the basic requirements is to get
rid of central address allocation authority and establish
a local-knowledge based routing. If you get that far, the
human operator mistakes are removed from the loop.
> I was with a group that tried to work out a mesh implementation across a 
> relatively small (~15sq miles) area, and it never came to fruition, 
> despite several years of work on the problems presented.

Do you have a pointer to description of your project, and what went
> > It can be done, and I'd be the first one celebrating, but from the mouths of
> > these morons its just mental masturbation.
> I don't even see *that* coming from this particular ?press release?.  Just 
> a "build it and people will do it" [hrmm.. Build it and They will come". 
> Where have I heard *that* before?] theme, with no particular goal in mind 
> other than wide "implementation (which is glaringly undefined)".  Whats 
> the point, and how do I know that these guys are even competent to decide 
> on a goal - just because they're with EFF?  A lawyer who likes to code is 
> a *long* way from the kind of talent that can make these little things 
> useful for anything more than maybe [sntp server||dns server-small||etc.).
> Has anyone looked at the scaling problems of having these warts fully 
> disseminated into the population, and "plugged in"?
> Like I said, it sounds like some vague, undefined project that nobody has 
> yet actually looked at with any seriousness.

I can tell you one thing: Eben Moglen is not a stupid man, and he's
surrounded with technically capable people. If he can raise the money
for 10-100 k wall wart units you can assume people will do useful
things with them.

Eugen* Leitl <a href="">leitl</a>
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