[liberationtech] Fwd: [hackerdojo] DARPA Funding for Hackerspaces: Good or Evil?

Wed Dec 7 18:30:04 PST 2011

At some point you draw a line for yourself. All tech you make can and will
be used in murders, directly or indirectly. If you think denying
a monetary gift as a sacrifice to try and prevent people-killing-research
from maybe happening, you're taking quite an indirect turn to preventing
the inevitable. Werner likely chose to accept the generous offer to have
him build awesome rocket engines, worst he could do is help his country. We
don't blame Turing for his work even though it helps millions of
computer-guided missiles even today.

I'm saying it's okay to develop something you really want to build. Doing
so when you know it'll help in anything unethical, more so than it will
anything ethical, you don't. You can neither stop DARPA from developing
weapons, some really believe what they do is for the good of all, nor can
you prevent progress. Stop trying. Don't do anything unethical. Convince
others to feel about it the same way you do.

Atom bombs really did inspire so much awe and horror that we're closer to
world peace than we ever were. It's always just the way you look at things.

TL;DR: offers to give you money for free, don't be an idiot. Just be sure
it's really free.

2011/12/7 Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org>

> ----- Forwarded message from Moritz Bartl <moritz at torservers.net> -----
>
> From: Moritz Bartl <moritz at torservers.net>
> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 08:49:19 +0100
> To: liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
> Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Fwd: [hackerdojo] DARPA Funding for
>        Hackerspaces: Good or Evil?
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
>        rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0
>
> On 06.12.2011 06:48, Yosem Companys wrote:
> > Interesting coincidence that while liberationtech was talking about
> > funding and net activism, the hacker spaces (e.g., Noisebridge,
> > HackerDojo, etc.) have been having a similar discussion...
>
> In my opinion, the best statement regarding DARPA funding for
> hackerspaces was made by Mitch Altman on the hackerspaces.org list:
>
> Let me quote it here in full:
> ---- snip ----
> My view is a bit different.  You don't have to agree, but please
> consider:  DARPA is a government agency that exists to further its
> goals.  It seems to me that those goals are to make things easier and
> better for hurting and killing other people.  It seems to me that this
> is why they exist.  If people working for DARPA are giving grant money
> away, it is to further the goals of DARPA.  This isn't to say that good
> things can't be done with DARPA money.  But DARPA is spending this money
> explicitly to further the goals of DARPA -- and it *will* be used to
> further those goals.
>
> Werner von Braun was an incredible visionary.  He wanted to explore
> space!  It was his lifelong dream.  He found an opportunity for funding
> his dream when Hitler offered to pay for him to make rockets.  Those
> rockets were used to destroy the lives of civilians in London in the
> form of V2 missiles.  After the war, he was eventually hired by NASA to
> make rockets that eventually became the basis of the US space program.
> Was this a good trade off?  I know how I feel.  I don't want to tell
> others what to do, or what to think or feel.  Please make up your own mind.
>
> In my mind, I would rather change projects than hurt others in order to
> fulfill the goals of my project.  But, before changing projects, perhaps
> there are other means of funding it, or allowing the project to proceed.
>  Those other means are way worth exploring.
>
> One other point I feel is worth considering:  A powerful method of
> marketing is to associate PRODUCT X with a warm and fuzzy feeling.
> Repeat that enough times, and enough people subconsciously associate a
> warm-fuzzy feeling with PRODUCT X, and sales of PRODUCT X go up some
> percentage.  PRODUCT X can be dish soap, a soft drink, a TV show, a
> political candidate, a banana republic dictator, green-washing corporate
> image -- anything the people paying for the marketing request.  PRODUCT
> X can also be DARPA.  If we make more warm and fuzzy associations with
> DARPA (by using their money for what we feel is *good*), then some
> people will more likely feel it is OK to work for an agency to further
> the goals of DARPA -- and those goals may not be in line with what you
> believe is of true benefit to you and those around you.  Or it may.
> Again, please think this through for yourself.  And please make a
> conscious choice.
>
> Best,
> Mitch.
> ---- snip ----
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/pipermail/discuss/2011-December/005189.html
>
>
> --
> Moritz Bartl
> https://www.torservers.net/
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> ----- End forwarded message -----
> --
> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
> ______________________________________________________________
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