dick claims torture success

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Wed Apr 22 02:15:47 PDT 2009


(if it's not torture, he should get lots)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/21/cheney-obama-cia-torture-memos 

Senior Bush figures could be prosecuted for torture, says Obama

President says use of waterboarding showed US had 'lost moral bearings' as
Dick Cheney says CIA memos showed torture delivered 'good' intelligence

    * Ewen MacAskill and Robert Booth

    * guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 21 April 2009 11.30 BST

Dick Cheney

Former US vice-president Dick Cheney has asked the CIA to declassify memos
detailing 'success' of torture. Photograph: Kevin Wolf/AP

Senior members of the Bush administration who approved the use of
waterboarding and other harsh interrogation measures could face prosecution,
President Obama disclosed today .

He said the use of torture reflected America "losing our moral bearings".

He said his attorney general, Eric Holder, was conducting an investigation
and the decision rested with him. Obama last week ruled out prosecution of
CIA agents who carried out the interrogation of suspected al-Qaida members at
GuantC!namo and secret prisons around the world.

But for the first time today he opened up the possibility that those in the
administration who gave the go-ahead for the use of waterboarding could be
prosecuted.

The revelation will enrage senior Bush administration figures such as the
former vice-president Dick Cheney.

The Obama administration views the use of waterboarding as torture, while
Cheney claims it is not.

Obama, taking questions from the press during a visit by King Abdullah of
Jordan, reiterated he did not believe in prosecution of those CIA agents who
carried out the interrogations within the guidelines set down for them. But
"with respect to those who formulated'' the policies, "that is going to be
more of a decision for the attorney general within the parameters of various
laws". He added: "I don't want to prejudge that." Ewen MacAskill on Obama's
reluctance to prosecute torturers Link to this audio

He also opened the way for a Congressional inquiry into the issue.

Meanwhile the former US vice-president Dick Cheney has called for the
disclosure of CIA memos which reveal the "success" of torture techniques,
including waterboarding, used on al-Qaida suspects under the Bush
administration.

Cheney said that, according to secret documents he has seen, the
interrogation techniques, which the Obama administration now accepts amounted
to torture, delivered "good" intelligence. He hinted that it had significant
consequences for US security.

Cheney was speaking out in response to the release by Barack Obama of four
Bush administration memos detailing the agency's interrogation methods used
against al-Qaida suspects.

"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent
disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from
the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed
the success of the effort," Cheney said in an appearance on Fox News.

"I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read,
that I saw, that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process
and what the consequences were for the country.

"I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so
the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned
and how good the intelligence was."

Obama yesterday visited CIA headquarters to defend the publication of the
internal documents. The row gathered further momentum yesterday when it
emerged that one detainee, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, had been subjected to
waterboarding 183 times and another, Abu Zubaydah, 83 times.

Obama is keen to try to put the row behind him, reluctant to see prosecutions
that could be politically divisive and distract attention from his heavy
domestic and foreign agenda.

In a speech to about 1,000 staff aimed at restoring CIA morale, Obama, who
promised last week that CIA operatives would not be prosecuted, reiterated
that he would stand by them.

"Don't be discouraged by what's happened in the last few weeks," Obama said.
"Don't be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we've made some
mistakes. That's how we learn."

At a private meeting with 50 rank-and-file CIA members at their headquarters
in Langley, Virginia, before his speech, Obama heard "understandable anxiety
and concern" from agents fearful of prosecution.

The CIA's director during the Bush administration, Michael Hayden, who
criticised the release of the memos, warned on Sunday that agents could be
vulnerable because of the memos, facing civil lawsuits or congressional
inquiries.

Sensitive details were blacked out in the memos seen by most of the media on
Thursday but over the weekend Marcy Wheeler, of the Emptywheel blog, found a
copy in which crucial details were not masked.

That copy showed that Mohammed had been subjected to waterboarding b which
simulates drowning b 183 times in March 2003. He had been arrested in
Pakistan at the start of that month. Abu Zubaydah, a Saudi captured in
Pakistan in March 2002, was subjected to waterboarding 83 times in August
2002.

Mohammed had admitted to involvement in terrorist actions before his capture
but, after being interrogated, confessed to a list of incidents and plots
that included the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre in New York, as well
as a plot to attack Heathrow, Big Ben and Canary Wharf, the beheading of the
US journalist Daniel Pearl, and the Bali bombing.

Abu Zubaydah denied involvement with al-Qaida.

Obama, defending himself against those in the CIA who argued that he should
not have released the memos, said legally he had no grounds for blocking a
freedom of information request from the US human rights group, the American
Civil Liberties Union.

"I acted primarily because of the exceptional circumstances that surrounded
these memos, particularly the fact that so much of the information was
public," Obama said.

Standing in front of a wall with 89 stars, each depicting an officer killed
in action, Obama praised the CIA as the "tip of the spear" in protecting the
US from its enemies.

Obama said he understood that intelligence officials must sometimes feel that
they are working with one hand tied behind their backs. But, rebutting
Hayden, he said: "What makes the United States special and what makes you
special is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and
our ideals even when it's hard, not just when it's easy, even when we are
afraid and under threat, not just when its expedient to do so.

"So yes, you've got a harder job and so do I, and that's OK. And over the
long term, that is why I believe we will defeat our enemies, because we're on
the better side of history."

Hayden had argued that the harsher interrogation techniques had provided
valuable information and said that the techniques did not amount to torture.

Human rights lawyers question the credibility of the confessions because they
were obtained under duress.

The White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, when asked yesterday why Bush
administration lawyers could not be prosecuted, said: "The president is
focusing on looking forward."





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