[gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)

[R.A. Hettinga]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Adam Selene <dgc at lunacity.org>
> Date: July 21, 2008 4:26:12 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
>
>     This just went public @ http://blog.e-gold.com/
>
>
>
>     A New Beginning <http://blog.e-gold.com/2008/07/a-new-beginning.html
> >
>
> November 2008 will mark the 12th anniversary of e-gold's debut as an
> alternative global payment system enabling Users - individuals or
> businesses - to receive payment in gold at extremely low cost and
> without risk of the sort of payment reversals that characterize all
> credit based systems.
>
> e-gold has been a pioneer in numerous areas and I am proud of its
> innovative accomplishments. Since 1996, the Internet has witnessed
> multiple online payment initiatives, several of them funded with
> $20-90 million of start-up capital, with distinguished founders and
> executive cadre, high profile brand name strategic allies, and
> favorable reception in the business press. But whereas Digicash,
> Cybercash, Beenz, Flooz, Peppercoin and a host of others each was
> promoted as the next big thing, all of them combined cumulatively
> [in their original incarnations - some have been restructured into
> other business models] executed less transaction volume than e-gold
> did in a typical single quarter.
>
> But this note is not about success. It is about e-gold's failure to
> date to emerge, its failure to transition from a marginal player for
> early adopters to a respected institution integrated into the global
> financial mainstream. I am talking about a vision that has not yet
> been realized and a determination to fix what needs to be improved.
>
> e-gold's failure to emerge so far is a result of many factors but
> the root causes were design flaws in the account creation and
> provisioning logic that led to the unfortunate consequence of
> vulnerability to criminal abuse. Criminal abuse of the e-gold
> system, in turn, led to a self-reinforcing negative reputation.
>
> Ultimately, criminal abuse of e-gold reached the point where the US
> Department of Justice intervened, bringing criminal charges against
> e-gold Ltd., Gold & Silver Reserve., Inc., (the Operator of e-gold
> and also of the online exchange service OmniPay), myself, and the
> other directors for violations of 18 USC 1960 [Operation of an
> unlicensed Money Transmitting Business] and 18 USC 1956 [Conspiracy
> to Commit Money Laundering]. The criminal case has been resolved.
> The resolution of the criminal case however provides for a second
> chance, an opportunity to address the flaws embedded in the e-gold
> system and to transform the "e-gold Operation" into the institutions
> I, the other directors, and our longsuffering employees and
> contractors have always envisioned, one that serves to advance the
> material welfare of mankind.
>
> In harmony with this transformation, we acknowledge that e-gold is
> indeed a Financial Institution or Agency as defined in US law and
> should be regulated as a Financial Institution. E-gold Ltd. has
> submitted an application to FinCEN to be registered as a Money
> Services Business and will be seeking licensure in all states that
> require it. Most importantly, working in conjunction with US
> government agencies, we will be exerting every effort to bring e-
> gold into compliance with US law and regulation as quickly as
> possible.
>
> I am going to briefly describe the systemic problems we are
> undertaking to rectify and a roadmap of where the system is heading.
> Going from where we are now to where we need to be is going to be a
> bumpy road, especially at first. Many legitimate e-gold Users have
> already suffered loss over the past year as the measures undertaken
> by the government to prevent dissipation of assets have severely
> impacted exchange markets with resulting illiquidity of a magnitude
> as to effectively make it impracticable to exchange e-gold for
> conventional money. There will be more disruption in the next few
> months but it will be temporary and will set the stage for powerful
> new features that enhance the usability and global reach of e-gold.
> If there is a silver lining, it is that the more illiquid e-gold has
> become, the more valuable it has become due to the (apparently
> ongoing) decline of the US dollar relative to gold and other non-
> financial assets.
>
> *e-gold User Agreement Changes*
>
> Before proceeding, however, let me make something clear that should
> have been made more emphatically clear long ago. Use of the e-gold
> system for criminal activity will not be tolerated. Memorializing
> this resolve, the following provisions are being added to the e-gold
> Account User Agreement <http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/e-g-agree.htm>:
>
> *2.3.* User agrees to not use e-gold in any manner that violates the
> laws of whatever jurisdiction to which the User is subject.
>
> *4.6.1.1.* If e-gold investigators reasonably suspect that the e-
> gold account of User is being used to launder the proceeds of crime
> or for any other criminal purpose, Issuer may freeze the e-gold
> account and any other e-gold accounts of User. Additionally, at the
> sole discretion of Issuer, User will be subject to damages and other
> penalties, including criminal prosecution where available and the
> notification of the general public of Users actions, at the sole
> discretion of Issuer.
>
> *Design flaws in legacy e-gold system*
>
> A systemic flaw in the e-gold design, present from the very
> beginning, made it vexingly difficult for e-gold to expel a User, in
> a truly effective way, for criminal abuse of the system. e-gold
> investigative staff might detect suspicious activity, block or
> freeze the offending account, and later discover the same
> perpetrator had created additional accounts.
>
> One element was logic that allowed an e-gold account full privileges
> from the moment of creation and only revoked those privileges in the
> event of suspicion that the account holder was seeking to mask their
> identity or actually engage in illicit activity.
>
> Compounding this weakness was an unrestricted ability for Users to
> create multiple accounts without any obligatory indicator that they
> were all under the control of one person.
>
> The next generation of the e-gold application will undertake to
> enforce a "one-human being/one e-gold User" rule. Instead of the
> existing logic where a User logs directly into an account, a User in
> the next generation system logs in as a User. Only validated Users
> are empowered with the ability to create multiple accounts.
>
> The advantage from the cybercrime-thwarting standpoint will be an
> ever-stronger ability to blacklist a person who has abused the e-
> gold system.
>
> e-gold is intensively working on this next generation User-based log-
> in system but it is likely to be another 6-9 months to deployment.
> Meanwhile, emergency surgery is required NOW.
>
> *Shock Therapy phase* [may it be brief!]
>
> *1)* Effective immediately, new e-gold account creation is suspended
> until a compliant interim solution for Customer Identification can
> be ensured.
>
> *2)* We are requesting that autoexchangers - even though the
> technical beauty of the autoexchanger concept is sublime  cease
> supporting exchanges to or from e-gold for the time being. The
> problem with the autoexchanger concept is that although the
> autoexchangers themselves may be perfectly compliant with
> requirements [promulgated by Webmoney and e-gold] to automatically
> put tracking data in their memo fields, and despite the fact that
> Webmoney is also committed to aiding in the suppression of
> cybercrime, the fact is that a substantial proportion of the
> cybercriminals that abuse e-gold have evolved into a modus operandi
> that involves autoexchanging possible proceeds of crime into
> Webmoney, sometimes within minutes of receiving the value, thus
> making interdiction a matter of catch-up or closing the barn door
> after the horse is gone.
>
> *Looking Forward*
>
> We are confident that a regulated e-gold rebuilt to a more
> systematic specification will be less hospitable to criminals, and
> more attractive to mainstream business use without being less
> accessible to those disregarded by legacy payment systems.
>
> Please accept our apologies for the occasional turbulence you may
> experience on this journey. And, as always...
>
> Thank you for using e-gold.
>
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Wavyhill <wavy at rayservers.net>
> Date: July 21, 2008 5:20:26 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
>
>> especially at first. Many legitimate e-gold Users have already
>> suffered loss over the past year as the measures undertaken by the
>> government to prevent dissipation of assets have severely impacted
>> exchange markets
>
> Yeah, well, thanks very much for warning us they are on their way
> to becoming a gold-based version of paypal, and their asses are
> thereby
> saved. Great for them. Saved for what?
> But nary a word was said about my kilos stolen along with the 1mdc
> reserve egold accounts. How did /that/ figure into their /deal/ ?
>
> wavyhill
>
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Adam Selene <dgc at lunacity.org>
> Date: July 21, 2008 8:06:43 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: [gsc] E-Gold Pleads Guilty to Money Laundering
>
> Appears "A New Beginning" was a sweetener from Doug to precede his
> Monday morning Plea Bargain the inevitable DOJ press release.
>
> https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/CourtSched.pl
>
> *Court Schedule: Monday, July 21, 2008
>
> *
> 07-cr-109:  USA v. E-GOLD, LTD. 	Judge Collyer 	09:30AM 	Courtroom 2
> Plea Agreement Hearing
> 07-cr-109:  USA v. GOLD & SILVER RESERVE, INC. 	Judge Collyer
> 09:30AM Courtroom 2 	Plea Agreement Hearing
> 07-cr-109:  USA v. JACKSON 	Judge Collyer 	09:30AM 	Courtroom 2
> Plea Agreement Hearing
> 07-cr-109:  USA v. DOWNEY 	Judge Collyer 	09:30AM 	Courtroom 2 	Plea
> Agreement Hearing
> 07-cr-109:  USA v. JACKSON 	Judge Collyer 	09:30AM 	Courtroom 2
> Plea Agreement Hearing
>
>
>   Adam
>
> -----------------------------
> FOR IMMEDIATE
> RELEASE
>
> CRM
>
> MONDAY, JULY 21, 2008
>
> (202) 514-2007
>
>
> WWW.USDOJ.GOV
>
> TDD (202) 514-1888
>
> DIGITAL CURRENCY BUSINESS E-GOLD PLEADS GUILTY
>
> TO MONEY LAUNDERING AND ILLEGAL MONEY TRANSMITTING CHARGES
>
>       WASHINGTON  E-Gold Ltd. (E-Gold), an Internet-based digital
> currency business, and its three principal directors and owners,
> pleaded guilty to criminal charges relating to money laundering and
> the operation of an illegal money transmitting business, Acting
> Assistant Attorney General Matthew Friedrich for the Criminal
> Division and U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Jeffrey A.
> Taylor announced today.
>
>       E-Gold and its corporate affiliate Gold & Silver Reserve
> Inc. each pleaded guilty to conspiracy to engage in money laundering
> and conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitting
> business.  The principal director of E-Gold and CEO of Gold & Silver
> Reserve Inc. (Gold & Silver Reserve), Dr. Douglas Jackson, 51, of
> Melbourne, Fla., pleaded guilty to conspiracy to engage in money
> laundering and operating an unlicensed money transmitting business.
> E-Golds other two senior directors, Barry Downey, 48, of Baltimore,
> and Reid Jackson, 45, of Melbourne, each pleaded guilty to felony
> violations of District of Columbia law relating to operating a money
> transmitting business without a license.  E-Gold, Gold & Silver
> Reserve and the three company directors were charged in an
> indictment returned by a federal grand jury on April 24, 2007.
>
> At sentencing, E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve face a maximum fine
> of $3.7 million.  Douglas Jackson faces a maximum prison sentence of
> 20 years and a fine of $500,000 on the conspiracy to engage in money
> laundering charge, and a sentence of five years and a fine of
> $250,000 on the operation of an unlicensed money transmitting
> business charge.  Downey and Reid Jackson each face a maximum of
> five years in prison and a fine of $25,000.  Additionally, as part
> of the plea, E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve have agreed to
> forfeiture in the amount of $1.75 million in the form of a money
> judgment for which they are joint and severally liable.  Sentencing
> for all defendants has been set for Nov. 20, 2008.
>
>       In addition to the fines and prison sentences, each of the
> defendants agreed that E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve will move to
> fully comply with all applicable federal and state laws relating to
> operating as a licensed money transmitting business and the
> prevention of money laundering which includes registering as money
> service businesses.  Also as part of the plea agreement, the
> businesses will create a comprehensive money laundering detection
> program that will require verified customer identification,
> suspicious activity reporting and regular supervision by the
> Internal Revenue Services (IRS) Bank Secrecy Act Division, to which
> the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network delegated authority
> according to federal regulations.  E-Gold and Gold & Silver Reserve
> will hire a consultant to ensure their compliance with applicable
> law and hire an auditor to verify the companies claims that all
> transactions are fully backed by gold bullion.
>
>       Under federal law and District of Columbia law, in addition
> to other jurisdictions, the E-Gold operation was required to be
> licensed and registered as a money transmitting business.  However,
> according to information in plea materials, the E-Gold operation
> functioned as a money transmitting business without registering with
> the federal government and without a license in the District of
> Columbia.  Because these businesses and individuals illegally failed
> to register and follow applicable regulations under federal and
> District of Columbia laws, the resulting lack of oversight and
> required procedures created an atmosphere where criminals could use
> e-gold, or digital currency, essentially anonymously to further
> their illegal activities.
>
>       Specifically, according to information contained in plea
> materials, the E-Gold operation provided digital currency services
> over the Internet through two sites: www.e-gold.com and
> www.Omnipay.com
> .  Several characteristics of the E-Gold operation made it
> attractive to users engaged in criminal activity, such as not
> requiring users to provide their true identity, or any specific
> identity.  The E-Gold operation continued to allow accounts to be
> opened without verification of user identity, despite knowing that
> e-gold was being used for criminal activity, including child
> exploitation, investment scams, credit card fraud and identity
> theft.  In addition, E-Gold assigned employees with no prior
> relevant experience to monitor hundreds of thousands of accounts for
> criminal activity.  They also participated in designing a system
> that expressly encouraged users whose criminal activity had been
> discovered to transfer their criminal proceeds among other e-gold
> accounts.  Unlike other Internet payment systems, the E-Gold
> operation did not include any statement in its user agreement
> prohibiting the use of e-gold for criminal activity.
>
> By failing to comply with money laundering laws and regulations,
> the E-Gold operation created an environment ripe for exploitation by
> criminals seeking anonymity in conducting online transactions, said
> Acting Assistant Attorney General Matthew Friedrich.  This case
> demonstrates that online payment systems must operate according to
> the applicable rules and regulations created to ensure lawful
> monetary transactions.
>
> The operations of E-Gold Ltd. and the other defendants undermined
> the laws designed to maintain the integrity of our financial system
> and created opportunities for criminal activity, said U.S. Attorney
> Taylor.  Because of the successful prosecution of these defendants,
> digital currency providers everywhere are now on notice that they
> must comply with federal banking laws or they will be subject to
> prosecution.
>
> The Secret Service is pleased with the successful outcome of the E-
> gold investigation, said U.S. Secret Service Assistant Director for
> Investigations Michael Stenger.  This case demonstrated that even
> the most sophisticated criminals cannot escape the combined
> resources of the Secret Service and our law enforcement partners.
> The Secret Service is committed to our mission of safeguarding the
> nations critical financial infrastructure and we will continue to
> pursue criminals seeking to use the Internet and new technologies to
> commit crimes.
>
> The case was investigated by the U.S. Secret Service, IRS Criminal
> Investigation and the FBI.  The case was prosecuted by Assistant
> U.S. Attorney Jonathan Haray of the U.S. Attorneys Office for the
> District of Columbia, Senior Counsel Kimberly Kiefer Peretti of the
> Criminal Divisions Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section
> and Laurel Loomis Rimon, Deputy Chief of the Criminal Divisions
> Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section, with assistance from
> the Criminal Divisions Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section.
> William Cowden of the U.S. Attorneys Office Asset Forfeiture Unit
> assisted with forfeiture issues involved in the case.
>
> ###
>
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Kevin Wilkerson <kbw at vertoro.com>
> Date: July 21, 2008 8:33:44 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> Wavyhill wrote:
>> But nary a word was said about my kilos stolen along with the 1mdc
>> reserve egold accounts. How did /that/ figure into their /deal/ ?
>
> As we know, that gold was already liquidated and wired to the feds.
> I see in the DOJ release that fines and jail time are pending, the
> exact amount of each to be determined by the judge, referencing the
> plea agreement of course.
>
> My bet is for no jail time, or a suspended sentence, and fines
> totaling approximately the amount already vacuumed up.  What a
> coincidence!
>
> -Kevin
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Adam Selene <dgc at lunacity.org>
> Date: July 21, 2008 8:43:32 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> Kevin Wilkerson wrote:
>> My bet is for .... fines totaling approximately the amount already
>> vacuumed up.
>
> The civil (not criminal) court case ultimately must have some
> resolution regarding requested asset forfeitures, including the
> frozen/liquidated accounts.
>
> The criminal case infers E-Gold will be an on-going business while
> the civil case had originally requested the forfeiture of absolutely
> all assets of E-Gold and *all their customers' gold*. I don't get
> how they can claim the latter.
>
> Pleading guilty doesn't exactly help the civil case, not sure the
> criminal plea bargain can help.
>
>   Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Bill St. Clair" <billstclair at gmail.com>
> Date: July 21, 2008 8:38:22 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:20 PM, Wavyhill <wavy at rayservers.net> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, well, thanks very much for warning us they are on their way
>> to becoming a gold-based version of paypal, and their asses are
>> thereby
>> saved. Great for them. Saved for what?
>
> GoldPal (TM)
>
> -Bill
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Wavyhill <wavy at rayservers.net>
> Date: July 21, 2008 9:06:50 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> Kevin Wilkerson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> My bet is for no jail time, or a suspended sentence, and fines
>> totaling approximately the amount already vacuumed up.  What a
>> coincidence!
>
> That doesnt make sense either. (Most of) the gold stolen belonged
> not to
> egold,
> but to its customers. If you fine a bank for criminal activity, you
> dont
> take it
> from the depositors accounts. In order to justifiably keep assets
> taken from customer accounts, seems to me you have to convict
> them of something, or at least prove the assets are the proceeds of
> crime,
> even if you cant identify the offenders.
>
> No one has charged me, much less convicted me, of anything criminal.
> My savings are gone. My self-styled masters have it.
> Where is my justice?
>
> wavyhill
>
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: "George Hara" <georgegabrielhara at fastmail.fm>
> Date: July 22, 2008 1:56:16 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> Wavyhill,
>
>
>> the gold stolen belonged not to egold, but to its customers. If you
>> fine a bank for criminal activity, you dont take it  from the
>> depositors accounts. In order to justifiably keep assets taken from
>> customer accounts, seems to me you have to convict them of
>> something, or at least prove the assets are the proceeds of crime,
>> even if you cant identify the offenders.
>
> Their logic must be quite simple: if you're anonymous, you're not a
> person, hence you don't exist.
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: JP May <jpm at interestingsoftware.com>
> Date: July 23, 2008 5:24:41 AM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold) - the reality
>
>>> *Looking Forward*
>>>
>>> We are confident that a regulated e-gold rebuilt to a more
>>> systematic specification will be less hospitable to criminals, and
>>> more attractive to mainstream business use without being less
>>> accessible to those disregarded by legacy payment systems.
>>>
>>> Please accept our apologies for the occasional turbulence you may
>>> experience on this journey. And, as always...
>>>
>>> Thank you for using e-gold.
>>
>>
>> Is it just me, or was anyone else looking for any sign from Douglas
>> (?) as to what will become of the e-gold users and their monies
>> that were stolen on April 24, 2007!
>>
>> Is it just me, or was this the first question that blasted forth
>> from your mouth after having read this piece!  WHAT ABOUT THE E-
>> GOLD USERS THAT HAVE BEEN SCREWED AS A RESULT OF YOUR FAILING IN
>> YOUR FIDUCIARY DUTIES!
>
>
> Bill,
>
> The three egold guys are ABSOLUTE VICTIMS here.
>
> They have been bent over and raped with steel poles by human filth
> masquerading as a government.
>
> Law and order in the USA has decayed to a plain circus - an
> absolutely, outright kangaroo court fiasco.
>
> The legal system in, say, the USSR, was no more corrupt ....... just
> a system of rubber-stamps for literally all-powerful prosecutors and
> bureaucrats.  Rubber stamps.
>
> That's EXACTLY what the USA "legal system" now amounts to.
>
> Because the government never loses a prosecution, and the government
> is all-powerful, prosecutors can very simply literally say "You will
> now do this _ _ _ and this _ _ _ or you will go to jail."   Then, a
> Judge rubber-stamps the arrangement.
>
> That's all the USA is.  That's IT.  It's a rubber-stamp system where
> prosecutors and bureaucrats have TOTAL, COMPLETELY UNLIMITED power.
>
> Prosecutors tell you what you have to do, and a Judge rubber-stamps
> it.  The deal is you do it or you do ten years in jail.
>
> You are completely wrong to blame the egold blokes in any way for
> anything.
>
> If you've lost the odd hundred thousand bucks worth of gold (or
> whatever, I don't know what your particular tally is, but many
> people on this list had that much stolen by the government) - big
> deal.
>
> The egold guys had MILLIONS stolen from them and are at risk of
> being thrown in the can for years by the system .... not to mention
> that their work of a decade of their life is crushed.
>
> Plus, out of all the exchangers, operators, "merchants," plain large
> users of egold, etc etc -- the three egold dudes were the ones
> picked by the human filth in the government, to suffer on behalf of
> all of us, to be an example.
>
> The only reason YOU or ANYONE on this list or that has ever had
> anything much to do with DGCs is not SITTING IN JAIL is because of a
> pure WHIM of the human filth in the various USA government offices.
>
> The only reason everyone ELSE is not being put through the ringer,
> is because the three egold dudes were put through the ringer.
>
> The USA government can put ANYONE - ANYONE - in jail any time they
> like, and that's absolutely the full extent of the situation.
>
> It is a rough situation Bill. To blame the egold guys is totally
> wrong, man.
>
> They are absolutely victims.  Moreover, THEY were chosen as the
> "fall-guys" to go through the ringer when it could have been anyone.
>
>
>
>>
>> WHAT ABOUT US AND WHAT ABOUT OUR GOLD!
>>
>> Thanks, again, Adam, for the update.
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Bill Bochynski
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: "ADMIN, GOLD COMPANIES" <goldcompanies at cox.net>
> Date: July 22, 2008 7:08:46 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> Adam Selene wrote:
>> Kevin Wilkerson wrote:
>>> My bet is for .... fines totaling approximately the amount already
>>> vacuumed up.
>>
>> The civil (not criminal) court case ultimately must have some
>> resolution regarding requested asset forfeitures, including the
>> frozen/liquidated accounts.
>>
>> The criminal case infers E-Gold will be an on-going business while
>> the civil case had originally requested the forfeiture of
>> absolutely all assets of E-Gold and *all their customers' gold*. I
>> don't get how they can claim the latter.
>>
>> Pleading guilty doesn't exactly help the civil case, not sure the
>> criminal plea bargain can help.
>>
>>   Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Here is another article on the events of yesterday, and frankly, the
> last sentence of the article really concerns me:
>
> "...Authorities said E-gold did not ask for account holders' true
> identity, *and company officials helped criminals distribute their
> money to other accounts if they were caught.*" (emphasis added).
>
> The total article is here:
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-07-22-money_N.htm
>
>
> Dean
>
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: YAlwaysWar at EarthLink.Net
> Date: July 23, 2008 1:55:15 AM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> Dear Adam:
>
> At 01:26 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
> Thank you for the post, Adam!
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> *Looking Forward*
>>
>> We are confident that a regulated e-gold rebuilt to a more
>> systematic specification will be less hospitable to criminals, and
>> more attractive to mainstream business use without being less
>> accessible to those disregarded by legacy payment systems.
>>
>> Please accept our apologies for the occasional turbulence you may
>> experience on this journey. And, as always...
>>
>> Thank you for using e-gold.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
> Is it just me, or was anyone else looking for any sign from Douglas
> (?) as to what will become of the e-gold users and their monies that
> were stolen on April 24, 2007!
>
> Is it just me, or was this the first question that blasted forth
> from your mouth after having read this piece!  WHAT ABOUT THE E-GOLD
> USERS THAT HAVE BEEN SCREWED AS A RESULT OF YOUR FAILING IN YOUR
> FIDUCIARY DUTIES!
>
> WHAT ABOUT US AND WHAT ABOUT OUR GOLD!
>
> Thanks, again, Adam, for the update.
>
> All the best.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bill Bochynski
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: YAlwaysWar at EarthLink.Net
> Date: July 23, 2008 2:08:38 AM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> Dear Wavyhill:
>
> At 06:06 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> No one has charged me, much less convicted me, of anything criminal.
>> My savings are gone. My self-styled masters have it.
>> Where is my justice?
>>
>> wavyhill
>
>
> Ditto!
>
> Thanks for saying so.
>
> All the best.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bill Bochynski
>
Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Jeffrey Lyon" <jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net>
> Date: July 22, 2008 3:28:32 PM GMT-04:00
> To: gold-silver-crypto at rayservers.com
> Subject: Re: [gsc] A New Beginning (E-Gold)
>
> My biggest concern is that exchangers and merchants will fall into the
> trap of being identified by e-gold as launders of their customer's
> funds and have their entire accounts seized accordingly.
>
> I'd be in favor of the e-Bullion model where the funds are basically
> considered cleared after a 24 hour hold.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:56 PM, George Hara
> <georgegabrielhara at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> Wavyhill,
>>
>>
>>> the gold stolen belonged not to egold, but to its customers. If
>>> you fine a bank for criminal activity, you dont take it  from the
>>> depositors accounts. In order to justifiably keep assets taken
>>> from customer accounts, seems to me you have to convict them of
>>> something, or at least prove the assets are the proceeds of crime,
>>> even if you cant identify the offenders.
>>
>> Their logic must be quite simple: if you're anonymous, you're not a
>> person, hence you don't exist.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jeffrey Lyon, President
> Level III Information Systems Technician
> jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net
> Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc.
>
> Talk for 4h 45m from the U.S. to Latin America for $10.00:
> http://www.defensecalling.com