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Subject: But Wouldn't Warlords Take Over? Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 09:30:03 -0400 Mailing-List: contact article-help at mises.biglist.com July Special: The Myth of National Defense, 20% Off (from $25 to $20). But Wouldn't Warlords Take Over? by Robert Murphy [Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2005] On two separate occasions in the last couple of weeks, people have asked me a familiar question: In a system of anarcho-capitalism or the free-market order, wouldnt society degenerate into constant battles between private warlords? Unfortunately I didnt give adequate answers at the times, but I hope in this article to prove the adage that later is better than never. APPLES AND ORANGES When dealing with the warlord objection, we need to keep our comparisons fair. It wont do to compare society A, which is filled with evil, ignorant savages who live under anarchy, with society B, which is populated by enlightened, law-abiding citizens who live under limited government. The anarchist doesnt deny that life might be better in society B. What the anarchist does claim is that, for any given population, the imposition of a coercive government will make things worse. The absence of a State is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition to achieve the free society. To put the matter differently: It is not enough to demonstrate that a state of private-property anarchy could degenerate into ceaseless war, where no single group is strong enough to subjugate all challengers, and hence no one can establish order. After all, communities living under a State degenerate into civil war all the time. We should remember that the frequently cited cases of Colombia and now Iraq are not demonstrations of anarchy-turned-into-chaos, but rather examples of government-turned-into-chaos. For the warlord objection to work, the statist would need to argue that a given community would remain lawful under a government, but that the same community would break down into continuous warfare if all legal and military services were privatized. The popular case of Somalia, therefore, helps neither side.[i] It is true that Rothbardians should be somewhat disturbed that the respect for non-aggression is apparently too rare in Somalia to foster the spontaneous emergence of a totally free market community. But by the same token, the respect for the law was also too weak to allow the original Somali government to maintain order. Now that weve focused the issue, I think there are strong reasons to suppose that civil war would be much less likely in a region dominated by private defense and judicial agencies, rather than by a monopoly State. Private agencies own the assets at their disposal, whereas politicians (especially in democracies) merely exercise temporary control over the States military equipment. Bill Clinton was perfectly willing to fire off dozens of cruise missiles when the Lewinsky scandal was picking up steam. Now regardless of ones beliefs about Clintons motivations, clearly Slick Willie would have been less likely to launch such an attack if he had been the CEO of a private defense agency that could have sold the missiles on the open market for $569,000 each .[ii] We can see this principle in the case of the United States. In the 1860s, would large scale combat have broken out on anywhere near the same scale if, instead of the two factions controlling hundreds of thousands of conscripts, all military commanders had to hire voluntary mercenaries and pay them a market wage for their services? CONTRACT THEORY OF GOVERNMENT I can imagine a reader generally endorsing the above analysis, yet still resisting my conclusion. He or she might say something like this: In a state of nature, people initially have different views of justice. Under market anarchy, different consumers would patronize dozens of defense agencies, each of which attempts to use its forces to implement incompatible codes of law. Now its true that these professional gangs might generally avoid conflict out of prudence, but the equilibrium would still be precarious. To avoid this outcome, my critic could elaborate, citizens put aside their petty differences and agree to support a single, monopoly agency, which then has the power to crush all challengers to its authority. This admittedly raises the new problem of controlling the Leviathan, but at least it solves the problem of ceaseless domestic warfare. There are several problems with this possible approach. First, it assumes that the danger of private warlords is worse than the threat posed by a tyrannical central government. Second, there is the inconvenient fact that no such voluntary formation of a State ever occurred. Even those citizens who, say, supported the ratification of the U.S. Constitution were never given the option of living in market anarchy; instead they had to choose between government under the Articles of Confederation or government under the Constitution. But for our purposes, the most interesting problem with this objection is that, were it an accurate description, it would be unnecessary for such a people to form a government. If, by hypothesis, the vast majority of peoplealthough they have different conceptions of justicecan all agree that it is wrong to use violence to settle their honest disputes, then market forces would lead to peace among the private police agencies. Yes, it is perfectly true that people have vastly different opinions concerning particular legal issues. Some people favor capital punishment, some consider abortion to be murder, and there would be no consensus on how many guilty people should go free to avoid the false conviction of one innocent defendant. Nonetheless, if the contract theory of government is correct, the vast majority of individuals can agree that they should settle these issues not through force, but rather through an orderly procedure (such as is provided by periodic elections). But if this does indeed describe a particular population, why would we expect such virtuous people, as consumers, to patronize defense agencies that routinely used force against weak opponents? Why wouldnt the vast bulk of reasonable customers patronize defense agencies that had interlocking arbitration agreements, and submitted their legitimate disputes to reputable, disinterested arbitrators? Why wouldnt the private, voluntary legal framework function as an orderly mechanism to settle matters of public policy? Again, the above description would not apply to every society in history. But by the same token, such warlike people would also fail to maintain the rule of law in a limited State. FREE RIDERS? A sophisticated apologist for the Stateespecially one versed in mainstream economicsmight come back with yet another justification: The reason a limited government is necessary is that we cant trust the market to adequately fund legitimate police forces. It may be true that 95 percent of a population would have similar enough views with respect to justice such that peace would obtain if they all contributed substantially to defense agencies dedicated to enforcing their views. However, the apologist could continue, if these police agencies have no right to extract contributions from everyone who endorses their actions, then they will be able to field a much smaller force. The market fails specifically because of the free rider problem: When a legitimate firm cracks down on a rogue agency, all law abiding people benefit, but in a free market they would not be obliged to pay for this public good. Consequently, rogue agencies, funded by malevolent outlaws, will have a much wider scope of operation under anarchy. Again, there are several possible replies to such a position. First, let us reflect that a large standing army, ready to crush minority dissenters, is not an unambiguously desirable feature of government. Second, the alleged problem of free riders would not be nearly as disastrous as many economists believe. For example, insurance companies would internalize the externalities to a large degree. It may be true that an inefficient number of serial killers would be apprehended if the relevant detective and police agencies had to solicit contributions from individual households. (Sure, everyone gets a slight benefit from knowing a serial killer has been caught, but whether or not one person contributes probably wont make the difference between capture or escape.) Yet insurance companies that each held policies for thousands of people in a major city would be willing to contribute hefty amounts to eliminate the menace of a serial killer. (After all, if he kills again, one of these companies will have to pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars to the estate of the victim.) The same reasoning demonstrates that the free market could adequately fund programs to contain rogue agencies. Third, people need to really picture the nightmare scenario to see how absurd it is. Imagine a bustling city, such as New York, that is initially a free market paradise. Is it really plausible that over time rival gangs would constantly grow, and eventually terrorize the general public?[iii] Remember, these would be admittedly criminal organizations; unlike the city government of New York, there would be no ideological support for these gangs. We must consider that in such an environment, the law-abiding majority would have all sorts of mechanisms at their disposal, beyond physical confrontation. Once private judges had ruled against a particular rogue agency, the private banks could freeze its assets (up to the amount of fines levied by the arbitrators). In addition, the private utility companies could shut down electricity and water to the agencys headquarters, in accordance with standard provisions in their contracts. The Myth of National Defense, 20% off Of course, it is theoretically possible that a rogue agency could overcome these obstacles, either through intimidation or division of the spoils, and take over enough banks, power companies, grocery stores, etc. that only full-scale military assault would conquer it. But the point is, from an initial position of market anarchy, these would-be rulers would have to start from scratch. In contrast, under even a limited government, the machinery of mass subjugation is ready and waiting to be seized. CONCLUSION The standard objection that anarchy would lead to battling warlords is unfounded. In those communities where such an outcome would occur, the addition of a State wouldnt help. Indeed, the precise opposite is true: The voluntary arrangements of a private property society would be far more conducive to peace and the rule of law, than the coercive setup of a parasitical monopoly government. Robert Murphy is an adjunct scholar of the Mises Institute. He teaches economics at Hillsdale College. See the Murphy Archive. Buy his book on the stateless society. Discuss this article on the blog. [i] Having made this concession, I should point out that anarcho-capitalists can see their theories borne out in Somalia to some extent. [ii] Its true that this figure would be lower for a private defense firm, since it would control costs much better than the Pentagon. Nonetheless it is still true that a private firm would husband its stockpile of weapons better than State officials. [iii] Let us also keep in mind that currently, mob groups (1) do not extract anywhere near as much money, nor kill as many people, as any government in a typical days work, and (2) they derive their current strength from government prohibitions (on gambling, drugs, prostitution, loan-sharking, etc.) and hence are not representative at all of an anarchist world. In response to many requests, it is now possible to set your credit-card contribution to the Mises Institute to be recurring. You can easily set this up on-line with a donation starting at $10 per month. See the Membership Page. This is one way to ensure that your support for the Mises Institute is ongoing. [Print Friendly Page] Mises Email List Services Join the Mises Institute Mises.org Store Home | About | Email List | Search | Contact Us | Periodicals | Articles | Games & Fun FAQ | EBooks | Resources | Catalog | Contributions | Freedom Calendar You are subscribed as: rah at ibuc.com Manage your account. Unsubscribe here or send email to this address. Report abuse or Spam on the abuse page. --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' _______________________________________________ Clips mailing list Clips at philodox.com http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From CEGYMZX at jeffreymoosegallery.com Thu Jul 7 22:02:49 2005 From: CEGYMZX at jeffreymoosegallery.com (Vince) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:02:49 -0100 Subject: you can`t miss that Fidel! 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From gabe at seul.org Fri Jul 8 09:22:27 2005 From: gabe at seul.org (Gabriel Rocha) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:22:27 -0400 Subject: Interesting article Message-ID: <20050708162227.GA13723@moria.seul.org> Don't know how many of you saw this... http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050705.gtrussia05/BNStory/Technology/ In the stolen-data trade, Moscow is the Wild East By GRAEME SMITH Tuesday, July 5, 2005 Updated at 8:40 AM EDT >From Tuesday's Globe and Mail MOSCOW b The most expensive wares in Moscow's software markets, the items that some Russians are calling a threat to their personal safety, aren't on public display. It takes less than 15 minutes to find them, however, at the teeming Gorbushka market, a jumble of kiosks selling DVDs, CD-ROMs and an array of gadgetry in an old factory west of downtown. One question -- Where can we buy databases of private information? -- and the young man selling rip-off copies of Hollywood movies leaps to his feet. He leads the customers to another vendor, who wears a bull's head on his belt buckle. This second man listens to the request, opens his cellphone, and punches a speed-dial number. Moments later, a third vendor appears. He is jovial and blunt about his trade. Advertisements "What do you need?" he says. "We have everything." In Moscow these days, among people who deal in stolen information, the category of everything is surprisingly broad. This Gorbushka vendor offers a hard drive with cash transfer records from Russia's central bank for $1,500 (Canadian). The information was reportedly stolen by hackers earlier this year and purchased by companies looking for details about their competitors. Such information, the vendor admits, is fairly specialized. A more popular item is tax records, including home addresses and declared incomes. The vendor asks $215. Russians routinely lie about their earnings to avoid taxes; nonetheless, an increasing number of criminals are relying on pirated tax information to help them choose wealthy targets. When gunmen broke into the gated home of Mikhail Pogosyan, head of Russian aerospace giant Sukhoi, in a brazen robbery last week, the businessman immediately blamed the proliferation of his personal details on the black market. "Before, robberies of such people happened very seldom, just by chance," says a Sukhoi spokesman, Alexei Poveschenko. "Criminals preferred not to deal with VIPs, but now it's different. On every corner you can buy a database with all kinds of information: income, telephones, cars, residence registration." The trade shows no signs of slowing. It's part of a broader problem for Russia as the country lobbies for membership in the World Trade Organization by next year, because the international body wants Russia to crack down on its pirated movies, music and software. Local authorities have swept through markets such as Gorbushka and seized thousands of bootleg discs, but within hours the black markets resume business. At the Gorbushka kiosk, sales are so brisk that the vendor excuses himself to help other customers while the foreigner considers his options: $43 for a mobile phone company's list of subscribers? Or $100 for a database of vehicles registered in the Moscow region? The vehicle database proves irresistible. It appears to contain names, birthdays, passport numbers, addresses, telephone numbers, descriptions of vehicles, and vehicle identification (VIN) numbers for every driver in Moscow. A check of The Globe and Mail's information shows that at least one part of the database is accurate. It's impossible to confirm the millions of other entries, although a few famous names stand out. An entry under the name Mikhail Khodorkovsky, with the same patronymic middle name and birthday as the oil tycoon, suggests that Russia's formerly richest man enjoyed zooming around on a grey 1999 Yamaha TW 125 motorcycle, or a 2000 light-blue BMW F650, before he was thrown in jail. Under the name Yuri Luzhkov, with details that seem identical to those of Moscow's powerful mayor, the list of vehicles includes a black 1997 Harley Davidson motorcycle and a green Gaz 69, a military jeep built in the 1960s. The Gorbushka vendor seems pleased with his sale, but puzzled. As his customers walk away, he says: "So tell me: Are you an American spy?" He gets a question in reply: "What? You'd sell your homeland so cheaply?" The vendor laughs, and returns to his work. From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Fri Jul 8 10:32:34 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:32:34 -0400 Subject: Interesting article In-Reply-To: <20050708162227.GA13723@moria.seul.org> Message-ID: That is interesting. One wonders if in certain circles of Russia people are much more careful with their data and encrypting it. Who knows? A country like that might evolve some fairly rigorous privacy procedures. Here in the US it's, "Our data is safe because people will go to jail if they hack it and sell it." -TD >From: Gabriel Rocha >To: cypherpunks at jfet.org >Subject: Interesting article >Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:22:27 -0400 > >Don't know how many of you saw this... > >http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050705.gtrussia05/BNStory/Technology/ > >In the stolen-data trade, Moscow is the Wild East > >By GRAEME SMITH > >Tuesday, July 5, 2005 Updated at 8:40 AM EDT > > >From Tuesday's Globe and Mail > > >MOSCOW b The most expensive wares in Moscow's software markets, the >items that some Russians are calling a threat to their personal safety, >aren't on public display. > >It takes less than 15 minutes to find them, however, at the teeming >Gorbushka market, a jumble of kiosks selling DVDs, CD-ROMs and an array >of gadgetry in an old factory west of downtown. > >One question -- Where can we buy databases of private information? -- >and the young man selling rip-off copies of Hollywood movies leaps to >his feet. He leads the customers to another vendor, who wears a bull's >head on his belt buckle. This second man listens to the request, opens >his cellphone, and punches a speed-dial number. > >Moments later, a third vendor appears. He is jovial and blunt about his >trade. > >Advertisements > > >"What do you need?" he says. "We have everything." > >In Moscow these days, among people who deal in stolen information, the >category of everything is surprisingly broad. > >This Gorbushka vendor offers a hard drive with cash transfer records >from Russia's central bank for $1,500 (Canadian). > >The information was reportedly stolen by hackers earlier this year and >purchased by companies looking for details about their competitors. > >Such information, the vendor admits, is fairly specialized. A more >popular item is tax records, including home addresses and declared >incomes. The vendor asks $215. > >Russians routinely lie about their earnings to avoid taxes; nonetheless, >an increasing number of criminals are relying on pirated tax information >to help them choose wealthy targets. > >When gunmen broke into the gated home of Mikhail Pogosyan, head of >Russian aerospace giant Sukhoi, in a brazen robbery last week, the >businessman immediately blamed the proliferation of his personal details >on the black market. > >"Before, robberies of such people happened very seldom, just by chance," >says a Sukhoi spokesman, Alexei Poveschenko. "Criminals preferred not to >deal with VIPs, but now it's different. On every corner you can buy a >database with all kinds of information: income, telephones, cars, >residence registration." > >The trade shows no signs of slowing. It's part of a broader problem for >Russia as the country lobbies for membership in the World Trade >Organization by next year, because the international body wants Russia >to crack down on its pirated movies, music and software. > >Local authorities have swept through markets such as Gorbushka and >seized thousands of bootleg discs, but within hours the black markets >resume business. > >At the Gorbushka kiosk, sales are so brisk that the vendor excuses >himself to help other customers while the foreigner considers his >options: $43 for a mobile phone company's list of subscribers? Or $100 >for a database of vehicles registered in the Moscow region? > >The vehicle database proves irresistible. It appears to contain names, >birthdays, passport numbers, addresses, telephone numbers, descriptions >of vehicles, and vehicle identification (VIN) numbers for every driver >in Moscow. > >A check of The Globe and Mail's information shows that at least one part >of the database is accurate. It's impossible to confirm the millions of >other entries, although a few famous names stand out. > >An entry under the name Mikhail Khodorkovsky, with the same patronymic >middle name and birthday as the oil tycoon, suggests that Russia's >formerly richest man enjoyed zooming around on a grey 1999 Yamaha TW 125 >motorcycle, or a 2000 light-blue BMW F650, before he was thrown in jail. > >Under the name Yuri Luzhkov, with details that seem identical to those >of Moscow's powerful mayor, the list of vehicles includes a black 1997 >Harley Davidson motorcycle and a green Gaz 69, a military jeep built in >the 1960s. > >The Gorbushka vendor seems pleased with his sale, but puzzled. As his >customers walk away, he says: "So tell me: Are you an American spy?" > >He gets a question in reply: "What? You'd sell your homeland so >cheaply?" > >The vendor laughs, and returns to his work. From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jul 8 12:12:59 2005 From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:12:59 -0400 Subject: [Clips] Pennsylvania's Anarchist Experiment: 1681-1690 Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: clips at philodox.com Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:15:13 -0400 To: "Philodox Clips List" From: "R.A. Hettinga" Subject: [Clips] Pennsylvania's Anarchist Experiment: 1681-1690 Reply-To: rah at philodox.com Sender: clips-bounces at philodox.com --- begin forwarded text From: "Mises Daily Article"

To: "Mises Daily Article"

Subject: Pennsylvania's Anarchist Experiment: 1681-1690 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:00:02 -0400 Mailing-List: contact article-help at mises.biglist.com Visit the Mises Economics Blog. Pennsylvania's Anarchist Experiment: 1681-1690 by Murray N. Rothbard [Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005] [This essay, never before online, is from Rothbard's magisterial 4-volume history of the Colonial period of the United States, Conceived in Liberty] In the vast stretches of America, William Penn envisaged a truly Quaker colony, "a Holy experiment...that an example may be set up to the nations." In his quest for such a charter, Penn was aided by the fact that the Crown had owed his father, Admiral Sir William Penn, the huge sum of 16,000 pounds for loans and back salary. In March 1681 the king agreed to grant young William, the admiral's heir, proprietary ownership of the lands west of the Delaware River and north of the Maryland border in exchange for canceling the old debt. The land was to be called Pennsylvania. Penn was greatly aided in securing the charter by his friendship with the king and other high officials of the court. The proprietary charter was not quite as absolute as the colonial charters granted earlier in the century. The proprietor could rule only with the advice and consent of an assembly of freemena provision quite satisfactory to Penn. The Privy Council could veto Pennsylvania's actions, and the Crown, of course, could hear appeals from litigation in the colony. The Navigation Acts had to be enforced, and there was an ambiguous provision implying that England could impose taxes in Pennsylvania. As soon as Penn heard news of the charter, he dispatched his cousin William Markham to be deputy governor of Pennsylvania. The latter informed the five hundred or so Swedish and Dutch residents on the west bank of the Delaware of the new charter. In the fall Markham was succeeded by four commissioners, and they were succeeded by Thomas Holme as deputy governor in early 1682. In May William Penn made the Frame of Government the constitution for the colony. The Frame was amended and streamlined, and became the Second Frame of 1683, also called the Charter of Liberties. The Frame provided, first, for full religious freedom for all theists. No compulsory religion was to be enforced. The Quaker ideal of religious liberty was put into practice. Only Christians, however, were to be eligible for public office; later, at the insistence of the Crown, Catholics were barred from official posts in the colony. The government, as instituted by the Frame, comprised a governor, the proprietor; an elected Council, which performed executive and supreme judicial functions; and an Assembly, elected by the freeholders, Justices of lower courts were appointed by the governor. But while the Assembly, like those in other colonies, had the only power to levy taxes, its powers were more restricted than those of assemblies elsewhere. Only the Council could initiate laws, and the Assembly was confined to ratifying or vetoing the Council's proposals. William Penn himself arrived in America in the fall of 1682 to institute the new colony. He announced that the Duke's Laws would be temporarily in force and then called an Assembly for December. The Assembly included representatives not only of three counties of Pennsylvania, but also of the three lower counties of Delaware. For Delawareor New Castle and the lower counties on the west bank of Delaware Bayhad been secured from the Duke of York in August. While Penn's legal title to exercising governmental functions over Delaware was dubious, he pursued it boldly. William Penn now owned the entire west bank of the Delaware River. The Assembly confirmed the amended Frame of Government, including the declaration of religious liberty, and this code of laws constituted the "Great Law of Pennsylvania.' The three lower Delaware counties were placed under one administration, separate from Pennsylvania proper. Penn was anxious to promote settlement as rapidly as possible, both for religious (a haven to Quakers) and for economic (income for himself) reasons, Penn advertised the virtues of the new colony far and wide throughout Europe. Although he tried to impose quitrents and extracted selling prices for land, he disposed of the land at easy terms. The prices of land were cheap. Fifty acres were granted to each servant at the end of his term of service. Fifty acres also were given for each servant brought into the colony. Land sales were mainly in moderate-sized parcels. Penn soon found that at the rate of one shilling per hundred acres, quitrents were extremely difficult to collect from the settlers. Induced by religious liberty and relatively cheap land, settlers poured into Pennsylvania at a remarkably rapid rate, beginning in 1682. Most of the immigrants were Quakers; in addition to English Quakers came Welsh, Irish, and German Quakers, Penn laid out the capital, destined to become the great city of Philadelphia, and changed the name of the old Swedish settlement of Upland to Chester. The German Quakers, led by Francis Daniel Pastorius, founded Germantown, In addition to Quakers, there came other groups attracted by the promise of full religious liberty: German Lutherans, Catholics, Mennonites, and Huguenots. The growth of Pennsylvania was rapid: 3,000 immigrants arrived during this first year; by 1684 the population of Philadelphia was 2,500, and of Pennsylvania, 8,000. There were over 350 dwellings in Philadelphia by the end of 1683. By 1,689 there were over 12,000 people in Pennsylvania. One of William Penn's most notable achievements was to set a remarkable pattern of peace and justice with the Indians. In November 1682 Penn concluded the first of several treaties of peace and friendship with the Delaware Indians at Shackamaxon, near Philadelphia. The Quaker achievement of maintaining peace with the Indians for well over half a century has been disparaged; some have held that it applied to only the mild Delaware Indians, who were perpetually cowed by the fierce but pro-English Iroquois. But this surely accounts for only part of the story. For the Quakers not only insisted on voluntary purchase of land from the Indians; they also treated the Indians as human beings, as deserving of respect and dignity as anyone else. Hence they deserved to be treated with honesty, friendliness, and evenhanded justice. As a consequence, the Quakers were treated precisely the same way in return. No drop of Quaker blood was ever shed by the Indians. So strong was the mutual trust between the races that Quaker farmers unhesitatingly left their children in the care of the Indians. Originally, too, the law provided that whenever an Indian was involved in a trial, six whites and six Indians would constitute the jury. Voltaire, rapturous over the Quaker achievement, wittily and perceptively wrote that the Shackamaxon treaty was "the only treaty between Indians and Christians that was never sworn to and that was never broken." Voltaire went on to say that for the Indians "it was truly a new sight to see a sovereign [William Penn] to whom everyone said 'thou' and to whom one spoke with one's hat on one's head; a government without priests, a people without arms, citizens as equal as the magistrate, and neighbors without jealousy." Other features of the Assembly's early laws were Puritanical acts barring dramas, drunkenness, etc. More liberally, oaths were not required and the death penalty applied only to the crime of murder. Punishment was considered for purposes of reform. Feudal primogeniture was abolished. To make justice more efficient and informal, the government undertook to appoint three arbitrators in every precinct, to hand down decisions in disputes. The Quakers, however, unsatisfactorily evaded the problem of what to do about a military force. So as not to violate Quaker principle against beating arms, the Friends refused to serve in the militia, but they still maintained a militia in the province, and non-Quaker officials were appointed in command, But surely if armies are evil, then voting for taxes and for laws in support of the evil is serving that evil and therefore not to be condoned. On the question of free speech for criticizing government, laws were, unfortunately, passed prohibiting the writing or uttering of anything malicious, of anything stirring up dislike of the governor, or of anything tending to subvert the government. The tax burden was extremely light in Pennsylvania. The only tax laws were enacted in 1683; these placed a small duty on liquor and cider, a general duty on goods, and an export duty on bides and furs. But Governor Penn promptly set aside all taxes for a year to encourage settlers. In 1684, however, another bill to raise import and other duties for William Penn's personal use was tabled; instead, a group of leaders of Pennsylvania pointed out that the colony would progress much faster if there were no taxes to cripple trade. These men heroically promised to raise 500 pounds for Penn as a gift, if the tax bill were dropped. The tax bill was dropped, but not all the money raised. As might have been predicted, the first political conflict in Pennsylvania came as a protest against the curious provisions of the Frame restricting the Assembly to ratifying bills initiated by the Council. In the spring of 1683, several assemblymen urged that the Assembly be granted the power to initiate legislation. Several of Penn's devotees attacked the request as that which seemed "to render him ingratitude for his goodness towards the people." The Assembly balked too at granting the governor veto power over itself. There are indications that the non-Quaker elements in the Assembly were particularly active in criticizing the great powers assumed by the governor and the Council. One of the leaders of the incipient opposition to Penn was the non-Quaker Nicholas More, Speaker of the Assembly in 1684. And Anthony Weston, apparently a non-Quaker, was publicly whipped on three successive days for his "presumption and contempt of this government and authority." Having founded the new colony and its government, and hearing of renewed persecution of Quaker at home, William Penn returned to England in the fall of 1684. He soon found his expectations of large proprietary profits from the vast royal grant to be in vain. For the people of the struggling young colony of Pennsylvania extended the principles of liberty far beyond what Penn was willing to allow. The free people of Pennsylvania would not vote for taxes, and simply would not pay the quitrents to Penn as feudal overlord. As a result, Penn's deficits in ruling Pennsylvania were large and his fortune dwindled steadily. In late 1685 Penn ordered the officials to use force to protect the monopoly of lime production that he had granted himself, in order to prevent others from opening lime quarries. As to quitrents, Penn, to encourage settlement, had granted a moratorium until 1685. The people insisted that payment be postponed another year, and Penn's threatened legal proceedings were without success. Penn was especially aggrieved that his agents in Pennsylvania failed to press his levies upon the people with sufficient zeal. Presumably, the free tax-less air of Pennsylvania had contaminated them. As Penn complained in the fall of 1686: "The great fault is, that those who are there lose their authority one way or another in the spirits of the people and then they can do little with their outward powers." After Penn returned to England in 1684, the Council virtually succeeded him in governing the colony. The Council assumed full executive powers, and, since it was elected rather than appointed, this left Pennsylvania as a virtually self-governing colony. Though Thomas Lloyd, a Welsh Quaker, had by Penn been appointed as president of the Council, the president had virtually no power and could make no decisions on his own. Because the Council met very infrequently, and because no officials had any power to act in the interim, during these intervals Pennsylvania had almost no government at alland seemed not to suffer from the experience. During the period from late 1684 to late 1688, there were no meetings of the Council from the end of October 1684 to the end of March 1685; none from November 1686 to March 1687; and virtually none from May 1687 to late 1688. The councillors, for one thing, had little to do. And being private citizens rather than bureaucrats, and being unpaid as councillors, they had their own struggling businesses to attend to. There was no inclination under these conditions to dabble in political affairs. The laws had called for a small payment to the councillors, but, typically, it was found to be almost impossible to extract these funds from the populace. If for most of 1684-88 there was no colonywide government in existence, what of the local officials? Were they not around to provide that evidence of the state's continued existence, which so many people through the ages have deemed vital to man's very survival? The answer is no. The lower courts met only a few days a year, and the county officials were, again, private citizens who devoted very little time to upholding the law. No, the reality must be faced that the new, but rather large, colony of Pennsylvania lived for the greater part of four years in a de facto condition of individual anarchism, and seemed none the worse for the experience. Furthermore, the Assembly passed no laws after 1686, as it was involved in a continual wrangle over attempts to increase its powers and to amend, rather than just reject, legislation. A bit of government came in 1685, in the person of William Dyer as collector of the king's customs. But despite the frantic urgings of William Penn for cooperation with Dyer, Pennsylvanians persisted in their de facto anarchism by blithely and regularly evading the royal navigation laws. William Penn had the strong and distinct impression that his "holy experiment" had slipped away from him, had taken a new and bewildering turn. Penn had launched a colony that he thought would be quietly subject to his dictates and yield him a handsome profit. By providing a prosperous haven of refuge for Quakers, he had expected in turn the rewards of wealth and power. Instead, he found himself without either. Unable to collect revenue from the free and independent-minded Pennsylvanians, he saw the colony slipping gracefully into outright anarchisminto a growing and flourishing land of no taxes and virtually no state. Penn frantically determined to force Pennsylvania back into the familiar mold of the old order. Accordingly, he appointed vice commissioners of state in February 1687 "to act in the execution of laws, as if I myself were there present, reserving myself the confirming of what is done, and my peculiar royalties and advantages" Another purpose of the appointments, he added, was "that there may be a more constant residence of the honorary and governing part of the government for the keeping all things in good order." Penn appointed the five commissioners from the colony's leading citizens, Quakers and non-Quakers, and ordered them to enforce the laws. The colonists were evidently content in their anarchism, and shrewdly engaged in nonviolent resistance against the commission. In fact, they scarcely paid any attention to the commission. A year passed before the commission was even mentioned in the minutes of the Council. News about the commission was delayed until the summer of 1687 and protests against the plan poured in to Penn. The commissioners, and the protesters too, pretended that they had taken up their posts as a continuing executive. Finally, however, Penn grew suspicious and asked why he had received no communication from the supposedly governing body. Unable to delay matters any longer, the reluctant commissioners of state took office in February 1688, a year after their appointment. Three and one-half years of substantive anarchism were over. The state was back in its heaven; once more all was right with the world. Typically, Penn urged the commissioners to conceal any differences they might have among themselves, so as to deceive and overawe the public: "Show your virtues but conceal your infirmities; this will make you awful and revered with ye people." He further urged them to enforce the king's duties and to levy taxes to support the government. The commissioners confined themselves to calling the Assembly into session in the spring of 1688, and this time the Assembly did pass some laws, for the first time in three years. The two crucial bills presented by the commissioners and the Council regulated the export of deerskins and once again, levied customs duties on imports so as to obtain funds to finance the governmentin short, imposed taxes on a taxless colony. After almost passing the tax bill, the Assembly heroically defied the government once again and rejected the two bills. The state had reappeared in a flurry of activity in early 1688, but was found wanting, and the colony, still taxless, quickly lapsed back into a state of anarchism. The commissioners somehow failed to meet and the Council met only once between the spring meeting and December. Pennsylvania was once again content with a supposedly dreadful and impossible state of affairs. And when this idyll came to an end in December 1688 with the arrival of a new deputy governor, appointed by Penn, the deputy governor "had difficulty finding the officers of the government. . . [He] found the Council room deserted and covered with dust and scattered papers. The wheels of government had nearly stopped turning."1 William Penn, seeing that the Pennsylvanians had happily lapsed into an anarchism that precluded taxes, quitrents, and political power for himself, decided to appoint a deputy governor. But the people of Pennsylvania, having tasted the sweets of pure liberty, were almost unanimously reluctant to relinquish that liberty. We have observed that the commissioners of state had failed to assume their posts and had virtually failed to function after it was presumed they accepted. No one wanted to rule others. For this reason, Thomas Lloyd, the president of the Council, refused appointment as deputy governor. At this point, Penn concluded that he could not induce the Quakers of Pennsylvania to institute a state, and so he turned to a tough non-Quaker, an old Puritan soldier and a non-Pennsylvanian, John Blackwell. Once a state has completely withered away, it is an extremely difficult task to re-create it, as Blackwell quickly discovered. If Blackwell had been under any illusions that the Quakers were a meek and passive people, he was in for a rude surprise. He was to find very quickly that devotion to peace, to liberty, and to individualism in no sense implies passive resignation to tyranny. Quite the contrary. In announcing Blackwell's appointment in September 1688, Penn made it clear that his primary task was to collect Penn's quitrents and secondarily to reestablish a government. As Penn instructed Blackwell: "Rule the meek meekly, and those that will not be ruled, rule with authority." John Blackwell's initial reception as deputy governor was an omen of things to come. Sending word ahead for someone to meet him upon his arrival in New York, he landed there only to find no one to receive him. After waiting in vain for three days, Blackwell went alone to New Jersey. When he arrived at Philadelphia on December 17, he found no escort, no parade, no reception committee. We have mentioned that Blackwell couldn't find the Council or any other government officialsand this was after he had ordered the Council to meet upon his arrival. One surly escort appeared and he refused to speak to the new governor. And when Blackwell arrived at the empty Council room, a group of boys from the neighborhood gathered around to hoot and jeer. The Quakers, led by Thomas Lloyd, now embarked on a shrewd and determined campaign of resistance to the imposition of a state. Thomas Lloyd, as keeper of the great seal, insisted that none of Blackwell's orders or commissions was valid unless stamped with the great seal. Lloyd, the keeper refused to do the stamping. It is amusing to find Edward Channing and other thorough but not overly imaginative historians deeply puzzled by this resistance: "This portion of Pennsylvania history is unusually difficult to understand. We find, for instance, so strong and intelligent a man as Thomas Lloyd declining to obey what appeared to be reasonable and legal direction on the part of the proprietor. As keeper of the great seal of the province, Lloyd refused point blank to affix that emblem of authenticity to commissions which Blackwell presented to him."2 What Channing failed to understand was that Pennsylvanians were engaged in a true revolutionary situation, that they were all fiercely determined to thwart the reimposition of a burdensome state upon their flourishing stateless society. That is why even the most "reasonable and legal" orders were disobeyed, for Pennsylvanians had for some years been living in a world where no one was giving orders to anyone else. Lloyd persistently refused to hand over the great seal or to stamp any of Blackwell's documents or appointments with it. Furthermore, David Lloyd, clerk of the court and a distant relative of Thomas, refused absolutely to turn over the documents of cases to Blackwell even if the judges so ordered. For this act of defiance, Blackwell declared David Lloyd unfit to serve as court clerk and dismissed him, but Thomas Lloyd promptly reappointed David by virtue of his alleged power as keeper of the great seal. As a revolutionary situation grows and intensifies, unanimity can never prevail; the timid and the shortsighted begin to betray the cause. Thus the Council, frightened at the Lloyds' direct acts of rebellion, now sided with Blackwell. The pro-Blackwell clique was headed by Griffith Jones, who had consented to let Blackwell live at his home in Philadelphia. Jones warned that "it is the King's authority that is opposed and looks to me as if it were raising a force to rebel." Of the members of the Council, only Arthur Cook remained loyal to the Lloyds and to the resistance movement. Of a dozen justices of the peace named by Blackwell, four bluntly refused to serve. When Blackwell found out the true state of affairs in Pennsylvania) his state-bound soul was understandably appalled. Here was a thriving trade based on continuing violations of the navigation laws. Here, above all, were no taxes, hence no funds to set up a government. As Bronner puts it: "He [Blackwell] deplored the lack of public funds in the colony which made it impossible to hire a messenger to call the Council, a doorkeeper, and someone to search ships to enforce the laws of England. He believed that some means should be found to collect taxes for the operation of the government."3 His general view, as he wrote to Penn, was the familiar statist cry that the colonists were suffering from excessive liberty: they had eaten more of the "honey of your concessions than their stomachs can bear." Blackwell managed to force the Council to meet every week during the first months of 1689, but his suggestion that every county be forced to maintain a permanent councillor in Philadelphia was protested by the Council. Arthur Cook led the successful resistance, maintaining that the "people were not able to bear the charge of constant attendance." As Blackwell continued to denounce the Council and Pennsylvania as a whole before his accession, Pennsylvanian opposition to his call for statism was further intensified. On the Council, Arthur Cook was joined in the intransigent camp by Samuel Richardson, who launched the cry that Penn had no power to name a deputy governor. For this open defiance, Richardson was ejected from the Council. The conflict of views continued to polarize Blackwell and the Pennsylvanians. Finally, the climax came on April 2, 1689, when Blackwell introduced proceedings for the impeachment of Thomas Lloyd, charging him with eleven high crimes and misdemeanors. (Blackwell had also refused to seat Lloyd when the latter was elected councillor from Bucks County.) In his impeachment speech, Blackwell trumpeted to his stunned listeners that Penn's and therefore his own powers over the colony were absolute. Penn was a feudal lord who could create manorial courts; furthermore, Penn could not transfer his royally delegated powers to the people, but only to a deputy such as himself. The Council, according to Blackwell's theory, existed in no sense to represent the people, but to be an instrument for William Penn's will. Blackwell concluded this harangue by threatening to unsheathe and wield his sword against his insolent and unruly opponents. Blackwell's proclamation of absolute rule now truly polarized the conflict. The choice was now narrowed: the old anarchism or the absolute rule by Blackwell. Given this confrontation, those wavering had little choice but to give Thomas Lloyd their full support. Blackwell now summarily dismissed from the Council Thomas Lloyd, Samuel Richardson, and John Eckly. On April 9, while the Councilthe supreme judicial arm of the colonywas debating the charge against Lloyd, Blackwell threatened to remove Joseph Growdon, At this point, the Council rebelled and demanded the right to approve its own members. Refusing to meet further without its duly elected members, the Council was then dissolved by Blackwell. With the Council homeward bound, the disheartened Blackwell sent his resignation to Penn, while seven councillors bitterly protested to Penn against his deputy's attempt to deprive them of their liberties. As for Blackwell, he believed the Quakers to be those agents of the devil foretold in the New Testament, who "despise dominion and speak evil of dignities." >From this point on, the decision was in the hands of Governor Penn, and Penn decided in favor of the Quakers and against Blackwell. For the rest of the year, Blackwell continued formally in office, but lost all concern for making changes or exerting his rule. From April 1689 until early 1690 he was waiting out his term. Blackwell wrote to Penn that "I now only wait for the hour of my deliverance." He summed up his grievance against the Quakers: "These people have not the principles of government amongst them, nor will be informed" A remarkable achievement: $100 Meanwhile, the Assembly, headed by Arthur Cook, met in May and fell apart on the issue of protesting the arrest of one of its members. Between May and the end of the year, the Council met only twice. Pennsylvania was rapidly slipping back toward its previous state of anarchism. William Penn enlivened this trend by deciding to reestablish the old system with the Council as a whole his deputy governor. Writing to the leading Quakers of Pennsylvania, Penn apologized for his mistake in appointing Blackwell but wistfully reminded them that he had done so because "no Friend would undertake the Governor's place." Now he told them: "I have thought fit . . . to throw all into your hands, that you may all see the confidence I have in you." With Blackwell out of office, the Council, back in control, resumed its somnolent ways. Again headed by Thomas Lloyd, it met rarely, did virtually nothing, and told William Penn even less. Anarchism had returned in triumph to Pennsylvania. And when Secretary William Markham, who had been one of the hated Blackwell clique, submitted a petition for levying taxes to provide some financial help for William Penn, the Council completely ignored the request. ________________________ Murray Rothbard (1926-1995), economist and historian, wrote a 4-volume history of the US: Conceived in Liberty, which is available from the Mises Institute store for $100. 1 Edwin B. Bronner, William Penn's "Holy Experiment" (New York; Temple University Publications, 1962), p. 108. To Professor Bronner belongs the credit for discovering this era of anarchism in Pennsylvania. 2 Edward Channing, A History of the United States, 6 Vols. (New York: Macmillan, 1905-25) 2:125. 3 Bronner, "Holy Experiment," p. 119. In response to many requests, it is now possible to set your credit-card contribution to the Mises Institute to be recurring. You can easily set this up on-line with a donation starting at $10 per month. See the Membership Page. This is one way to ensure that your support for the Mises Institute is ongoing. [Print Friendly Page] Mises Email List Services Join the Mises Institute Mises.org Store Home | About | Email List | Search | Contact Us | Periodicals | Articles | Games & Fun FAQ | EBooks | Resources | Catalog | Contributions | Freedom Calendar You are subscribed as: rah at ibuc.com Manage your account. Unsubscribe here or send email to this address. Report abuse or Spam on the abuse page. --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' _______________________________________________ Clips mailing list Clips at philodox.com http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From julieBowden69 at b.stadtnet.de.jfet.org Fri Jul 8 09:14:21 2005 From: julieBowden69 at b.stadtnet.de.jfet.org (Julie Mejia) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 15:14:21 -0100 Subject: guess who :) Message-ID: <413z7fzlsc.fsf@calle50.net> I'm new, it's Julie :) Any times of the day I feel not in a mood alot of times... old time friend suggested to have my life on the internet . 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Here in the > US it's, "Our data is safe because people will go to jail if they hack it > and sell it." Unless, of course, your data falls into the hands of Choicepoint, Lexis Nexis, etc. Mostly in order to avoid a legislative crackdown that puts them out of business, they probably put some effort into vetting who gets to see the magic bits (unlike our Russian streetcorner pals). But we saw how well that worked with Choicepoint. 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Name: embassy.4.gif Type: image/gif Size: 8467 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MIRWDLMOFTBXQY at t-i-r.com Sun Jul 10 22:51:52 2005 From: MIRWDLMOFTBXQY at t-i-r.com (Nannie) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:51:52 +0600 Subject: you`ll be amazed Hubert Message-ID: Increase your CUM VOLUME, and Orgasm Length main benifits: - The longest most intense Orgasms of your life - Erctions like steel - lncreased libido/desire - Stronger ejaculaton (watch where your aiming) - Multiple 0rgasms - Up to 500% more volume (cover her in it if you want) - Studies show it tastes sweeter DISCREET SAME DAY SHIPPING - TRY IT, YOU'LL LOVE IT! (and she'll thank you for it) http://lipase.net/spur/?got window you eider me promethean you vagrant me swipe you modesto me derision you homomorphic me design you dozen me dodecahedra you stoppage me cdc you broth me http://lipase.net/rm.php?got From tkaitchuck at comcast.net Mon Jul 11 14:34:42 2005 From: tkaitchuck at comcast.net (Tom Kaitchuck) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:34:42 -0700 Subject: [i2p] Re: side channel attacks Message-ID: Nostra2004 at Safe-mail.net wrote: >I believe programs that search for spelling and style characteristics can >be largely thwarted by passing the text through at least two language >translation programs and tweaking the text to remove obvious semantic >errors. The translators will also, often, help do an inadvertent spell >checking when they can't identify the English word, leaving it untouched. > >Here is an example of passing the above paragraph through a >English-Russian-English transform using http://www.translate.ru : > >"I believe to programs that searches for spelling and develops features, it >is possible to stir substantially, transferring the text at least through >two language programs of translation and ?????????? the text to remove >obvious semantic mistakes. Translators will be also, often, to help to do >the negligent period checking when they cannot identify an English word, >leaving it is untouched." > >Leaving in the cyrillic selected by the translator for the word "tweaking" >may help throwt automated style analysis programs. > >Here's the same paragraph transformed through German: > >"I believe programs which can look for the orthography and style qualities >be mainly crossed, the text by at least two linguistic translation programs >passing and the text pinching to remove evident semantic mistakes. The >translators will also help often to do an inattentive period examination if >they cannot identify the English word, it untouched leaving." > >Nostra > > If you are that worried about someone identifying you, maybe sending the sensitive information out unencrypted over the Internet to an easily identifiable third-party that can be monitored is a bad idea. Downloading the software is not much better, as it is still a very distinctive feature. When doing anything for the sake of anonymity you must consider both your threat model and your anonymity set. A perfectly secure network is worthless if the bar to entry is so high that only a few people ever join. Even if you could only ever know something came from someone on the network, that fact alone would reduce the number of individuals that could be responsible to fewer than if they hadn't bothered with the network. _______________________________________________ i2p mailing list i2p at i2p.net http://i2p.dnsalias.net/mailman/listinfo/i2p ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From cyphrpunk at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:06:13 2005 From: cyphrpunk at gmail.com (cypherpunk) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:06:13 -0700 Subject: Attack on Brands blind signature Message-ID: <792ce43705071116066a638b63@mail.gmail.com> eprint.iacr.org/2005/186 is an attack by Xuesheng Zhong on several blind signature schemes, including one widely discussed on the Cypherpunks mailing list back in the 1990s by Stefan Brands. The paper seems to show that it is possible for the bank/mint to recognize blind signatures (i.e. untraceable electronic cash tokens) when they are re-submitted for deposit, which is exactly what the blind signature is supposed to prevent. The math looks right although I haven't tried to look back at Brands' old work to see if it is correctly described in the new paper. CP From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Mon Jul 11 05:56:35 2005 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:56:35 +1200 Subject: Looking for crypto iButton specs Message-ID: During a recent discussion about secure crypto device bootstrap and attestation capabilities, I realised that of the three devices for which this was implemented and for which documentation was available (Fortezza, IBM 4758, and Dallas Crypto iButton), I either don't have any documentation for the Crypto iButton or I've filed it under something sufficiently misleading that I can't find it any more. So: Does anyone still have the documentation for the DS1954 Crypto iButton? Note that I specifically mean the DS1954 Crypto iButton before its Javafuxation, which removed the very nice crypto security model and crypto transaction processing/scripting capability. Dallas systematically excised any traces of the pre-Javafuxated version from databooks and web pages, so it'd be a case of someone having a copy archived somewhere. It was a very nice design and I'd like to have some record of it outside the summary I put in my Godzilla security tutorial. (If whoever did the design is reading this, I'd be interested in hearing from them as well). Peter. From VPVHDEAYUBQW at batchplus.com.jfet.org Tue Jul 12 07:48:59 2005 From: VPVHDEAYUBQW at batchplus.com.jfet.org (Omar) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:48:59 -0500 Subject: those are real amateurs Rafael Message-ID: <0100911010330.01145@jfuertes.maz.es> These are real amateurs who have webcams on their computers in their dorm rooms! This is not one of those porn sites with professional girls who get paid to do this in front of the camera, these are the average girls next door, at college, trying to make money and meet guys! It wont take you more then 1 minute to just check this out what are you waiting for? http://schnazzyboot.com/co25/ backhand you cordage me lear you chassis me hypocritical you doctrinal me exogamy you constantinople me accompany you sycophant me amos you subsidy me From eugen at leitl.org Tue Jul 12 02:27:20 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 11:27:20 +0200 Subject: [tkaitchuck@comcast.net: Re: [i2p] Re: side channel attacks] Message-ID: <20050712092720.GS25947@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from Tom Kaitchuck ----- From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Tue Jul 12 11:47:54 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:47:54 -0400 Subject: Reverse Palladium? Message-ID: How secure can I make a Java sandbox from the rest of the network I'm on? Can I make it so that my network administrator can't see what I'm typing? In other words, a secure environment that's sitting on an insecure machine. And of course, there's a short term 'solution' (which will work until they catch on) and then a long-term solution (which they can't very easily stop even when they know such a thing exists). Oh, and it helps to remember that a network admin AIN'T an engineer: If Microsoft or someone hasn't built an app for it, then they can't do anything about it. -TD From cyphrpunk at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 00:15:21 2005 From: cyphrpunk at gmail.com (cypherpunk) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:15:21 -0700 Subject: Reverse Palladium? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <792ce43705071300155b269b0e@mail.gmail.com> On 7/12/05, Tyler Durden wrote: > How secure can I make a Java sandbox from the rest of the network I'm on? > Can I make it so that my network administrator can't see what I'm typing? In > other words, a secure environment that's sitting on an insecure machine. Although you asked about "Reverse Palladium" what you really want is Palladium itself. This is precisely the security model which has so many people upset: the system owner (the network admin) is giving up control over his machine, running software which he cannot control, molest or modify. You, a third party, are protected against the computer's owner. The ability for owners to voluntarily and verifiably give up a degree of control over their computers is anathema to Trusted Computing opponents, the height of evil and a threat to be fought at all costs. The fact that it is voluntary for all concerned means nothing to them. They don't want people even to have the chance to be tempted to utilize this technology, and they will stop at nothing to keep it from coming into existence. So far they have been extremely successful. See http://invisiblog.com/1c801df4aee49232/article/9d481af00c898ae91748f2f0cd97cf80 for discussion about how to use Palladium to add security to Internet voting applications, even for cases where people are voting on machines owned by others. This is very similar to the threat model in your situation. CP From HQHEJSNXYLMEF at telus.net Tue Jul 12 12:06:32 2005 From: HQHEJSNXYLMEF at telus.net (Agustin Bowling) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:06:32 +0600 (CST) Subject: Recieve all da pherma prods you naed to-day chasm Message-ID: <302779051413.kt7LDxV168@bee7.buzzard53btinternet.com> For limited time, we chose you as one of our selected costummers, to receive the best of out daeld. You are more then welcomed to enter out site and take advantage of our neweest and bast daels! 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From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jul 13 01:32:07 2005 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:32:07 -0700 Subject: Reverse Palladium? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713012226.029ed488@pop.idiom.com> At 11:47 AM 7/12/2005, Tyler Durden wrote: >How secure can I make a Java sandbox from the rest of the network I'm on? >Can I make it so that my network administrator can't see what I'm typing? >In other words, a secure environment that's sitting on an insecure machine. There's the "network" and there's the computer. If you're on a computer you can't trust, you can't trust it. If you're the sysadmin for the box, and nobody else is, then you're only exposed to eavesdropping on the network. If you can't trust the sysadmins for the computer not to do keystroke logging and CarbonCopy your screen, you've got a much tougher threat model. If you've got a machine you're willing to trust, you can tunnel everything else you do through encrypted tunnels; the network administrator will be able to see where the outside of the outer tunnel is, if that bothers you. There are a number of SSL-based VPN tunnel products on the market, including some that just use the browser's SSL capabilities, some that use a browser with Java app clients, and some that use actual installed client software. Aventail is one vendor, Cisco's another, there are lots more, but I haven't seen any open-source server versions (e.g. Apache plugins), though some servers do at least run on Linux. Some of Aventail's products are made to run on a publicly-accessible machine, e.g. cybercafe model, and give you a "virtual desktop" that looks like your home system and clean up after themselves when you log off. From bill.stewart at pobox.com Wed Jul 13 01:58:30 2005 From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 01:58:30 -0700 Subject: Drug-traffickers' Trunk-mounted Evidence-ditching Rocket Fails to Take Off Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050713015321.029dfbf8@pop.idiom.com> My brother's summary, spoken by a Wile E. Coyote cartoon figure: "2 KY meth traffickers rigged up their car so if cops closed in a small rocket with their stash would launch itself from the trunk" ..... "that never works" "meep meep" Fox News Story: http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,161609,00.html Drug Rocket Fails to Take Off Tuesday, July 05, 2005 Drug dealing really may be rocket science. Two accused methamphetamine traffickers apparently rigged up their car so that if cops closed in, a small rocket carrying their stash would pop up from the trunk and launch itself far from the long arm of the law. For some reason, the rocket never achieved liftoff when Missouri State Highway Patrol (search) officers pulled over Michael Ray Sullivan, 41, and Joseph C. Seidl, 39, both of Kentucky, on June 24 in Kingdom City. The $13,534 in cash in the 1990 Ford Thunderbird was interesting enough, Kansas City U.S. Attorney's Office spokesman Don Ledford told the Columbia (Mo.) Daily Tribune. Far more intriguing was what was in the trunk: three dud pipe bombs and a "hobby-style" rocket, three to four feet long, all packed with meth worth up to $145,000. Ledford explained that a web of ropes and pulleys lifted the rocket into launch position when the trunk lid was opened. The rocket could then be ignited from inside the car using the dashboard cigarette lighter. Cops are pretty certain the rocket was meant to be an escape pod for the drugs, but Ledford diplomatically declined to speculate. "But they did have the meth inside the rocket," he admitted, "and it could be launched from inside the car." - Thanks to Out There reader Jen J. From cuiljwutera at mail.com Tue Jul 12 14:17:41 2005 From: cuiljwutera at mail.com (Chase Pina) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 03:17:41 +0600 Subject: Enter this arousing seex site now coast Message-ID: This new site has unhearof feature: You enter it and you can download as many seex DVDs and movies as you want. Plus, it's only USD 1 for 30 days trial! What are ya waitin' for?? http://www.soemchik.com/pf/achromatic/chimney/corrigible.htm so here are a couple of things about military recruitment one of them is creepy and the other one is just well they re both creepy. hey maybe my sweetie did pay those pc repair folks to keep me off-line for a few weeks never thought of that one it sounds sweet so i ll use that excuse for being away for so long. no one likes to write a paper for class but the way she taught me to get it done changed the way i looked at it. mark i have your latest cookbook and have really enjoyed using it to create new dishes for my new husband thanks so much for helping me to bring new things into our marriage god bless you sandra. From powers at adventis.com Wed Jul 13 05:27:21 2005 From: powers at adventis.com (Hershel Daley) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 04:27:21 -0800 Subject: Pre-approvedd rate #sotpdzdbl Message-ID: <13834.$$.07978.Etrack@> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 685 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: .2.gif Type: image/gif Size: 8467 bytes Desc: not available URL: From clarke at accesstms.com Wed Jul 13 08:32:38 2005 From: clarke at accesstms.com (Daisy Rhoades) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:32:38 -0800 Subject: Notice: Loww mortagee ratee approved Message-ID: <917166348.0238211846778.JavaMail.ebayapp@sj-besreco446> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1040 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: copperas.9.gif Type: image/gif Size: 8503 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Wed Jul 13 09:16:55 2005 From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Paintball "Terrorist" Sentenced Message-ID: <200507131616.j6DGGtqC016828@artifact.psychedelic.net> I'd just like to say that the American troops who carried out Bush's illegal war in Iraq, which killled 100,000 Iraqi civilians, are war criminals, and I'd like to encourage all of AmeriKKKa's victims to capture them and bake them in pies, after forcing them to bark like dogs and poop themselves. Now, is that worth life in prison? Only in a police state. In a real democracy whose citizens are free, it's protected political speech. Too bad AmeriKKKa isn't one of those. Fuck Bush. This, by the way, in case you can't read through the inflammatory bullshit in the wireservice story, was the case of some individuals who were deemed to have engaged in a conspiracy to wage war against the US, because in addition to being Islamic, and denouncing Bush's war, they played paintball. http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-terror-paintball-sentence,0,4274092.story ----- ALEXANDRIA, Va. -- A prominent U.S.-based Islamic scholar who exhorted his followers after the Sept. 11 attacks to join the Taliban and fight U.S. troops was sentenced Wednesday to life in prison. Ali al-Timimi of Fairfax was convicted in April of soliciting others to levy war against the United States, inducing others to aid the Taliban, and inducing others to use firearms in violation of federal law. The cleric addressed the court for 10 minutes before his sentencing. "I will not admit guilt nor seek the court's mercy. I do this simply because I am innocent," al-Timimi said. The cleric addressed the court for 10 minutes before his sentencing. "I will not admit guilt nor seek the court's mercy. I do this simply because I am innocent," al-Timimi said. Prosecutors said the defendant, a native U.S. citizen who has an international following in some Muslim circles, wielded enormous influence among a group of young Muslim men in northern Virginia who played paintball games in 2000 and 2001. Authorities said they were a "Virginia jihad network" training for holy war around the globe. ... -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From michaelslists at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 17:38:31 2005 From: michaelslists at gmail.com (Michael Silk) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:38:31 +1000 Subject: Reverse Palladium? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5e01c29a05071217381f3480e5@mail.gmail.com> Well not with java ...? Any keylogger would catch what you type; or any mouse-logger could catch what you click. You could either attempt to remove/bypass keyloggers with a lower-level language, or type in code. ... -- Michael On 7/13/05, Tyler Durden wrote: > How secure can I make a Java sandbox from the rest of the network I'm on? > Can I make it so that my network administrator can't see what I'm typing? In > other words, a secure environment that's sitting on an insecure machine. > > And of course, there's a short term 'solution' (which will work until they > catch on) and then a long-term solution (which they can't very easily stop > even when they know such a thing exists). > > Oh, and it helps to remember that a network admin AIN'T an engineer: If > Microsoft or someone hasn't built an app for it, then they can't do anything > about it. > > -TD From paquin at credentica.com Wed Jul 13 11:19:30 2005 From: paquin at credentica.com (Christian Paquin) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:19:30 -0400 Subject: Attack on Brands blind signature In-Reply-To: <792ce43705071116066a638b63@mail.gmail.com> References: <792ce43705071116066a638b63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42D55B32.5020500@credentica.com> cypherpunk wrote: > eprint.iacr.org/2005/186 is an attack by Xuesheng Zhong on several > blind signature schemes, including one widely discussed on the > Cypherpunks mailing list back in the 1990s by Stefan Brands. The paper > seems to show that it is possible for the bank/mint to recognize blind > signatures (i.e. untraceable electronic cash tokens) when they are > re-submitted for deposit, which is exactly what the blind signature is > supposed to prevent. The math looks right although I haven't tried to > look back at Brands' old work to see if it is correctly described in > the new paper. The claim that Brands' signature scheme is linkable is incorrect (I haven't checked the other claims in the paper). The attack checks that a^{c'c^{-1}}.g^{s'-c'c^{-1}s} = a' for a signature {m', z', c', s'} and a view {m, r, z, a, b, c, s}. The above equation reduces to = g^s' a^{c'c^{-1}} g^{-c'c^{-1}s} = g^s' (a g^{-s})^{c'c^{-1}} = g^s' (g^s y^{-c} g^-s)^{c'c^{-1}} = g^s' y^{-c'} which is the normal signature validation term. If fact, you can see that the attack will match _any_ signature with _any_ view. Therefore, it provides no information to the attacker. Cheers, - Christian -- Christian Paquin Security Architect Credentica From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Wed Jul 13 12:25:25 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:25:25 -0400 Subject: Paintball "Terrorist" Sentenced In-Reply-To: <200507131616.j6DGGtqC016828@artifact.psychedelic.net> Message-ID: Quit inciting me to bake US troops into pies. I didn't want to do it, but you made such a convincing argument that I just had to. it's all your fault: You FORCED me to bake Corp Anderson and Lieutenant Sanders into pies. (Well, I actually didn't bake them in pies but baked some GI Joe action figures into pies, but that's the same thing after all: It's the thought that counts.) -TD >From: Eric Cordian >To: cypherpunks at minder.net >Subject: Paintball "Terrorist" Sentenced >Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:16:55 -0700 (PDT) > >I'd just like to say that the American troops who carried out Bush's >illegal war in Iraq, which killled 100,000 Iraqi civilians, are war >criminals, and I'd like to encourage all of AmeriKKKa's victims to capture >them and bake them in pies, after forcing them to bark like dogs and poop >themselves. > >Now, is that worth life in prison? Only in a police state. In a real >democracy whose citizens are free, it's protected political speech. Too >bad AmeriKKKa isn't one of those. > >Fuck Bush. > >This, by the way, in case you can't read through the inflammatory bullshit >in the wireservice story, was the case of some individuals who were deemed >to have engaged in a conspiracy to wage war against the US, because in >addition to being Islamic, and denouncing Bush's war, they played >paintball. > >http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-terror-paintball-sentence,0,4274092.story > >----- > >ALEXANDRIA, Va. -- A prominent U.S.-based Islamic scholar who exhorted his >followers after the Sept. 11 attacks to join the Taliban and fight U.S. >troops was sentenced Wednesday to life in prison. > >Ali al-Timimi of Fairfax was convicted in April of soliciting others to >levy war against the United States, inducing others to aid the Taliban, >and inducing others to use firearms in violation of federal law. > >The cleric addressed the court for 10 minutes before his sentencing. "I >will not admit guilt nor seek the court's mercy. I do this simply because >I am innocent," al-Timimi said. > >The cleric addressed the court for 10 minutes before his sentencing. "I >will not admit guilt nor seek the court's mercy. I do this simply because >I am innocent," al-Timimi said. > >Prosecutors said the defendant, a native U.S. citizen who has an >international following in some Muslim circles, wielded enormous influence >among a group of young Muslim men in northern Virginia who played >paintball games in 2000 and 2001. Authorities said they were a "Virginia >jihad network" training for holy war around the globe. > >... > >-- >Eric Michael Cordian 0+ >O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division >"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From xfpptehiki at alsi.nl Wed Jul 13 13:03:04 2005 From: xfpptehiki at alsi.nl (Vern) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:03:04 -0300 Subject: Increase stamina and endurance Juana Message-ID: <5.1.67.2081924.0083fc70@ies.edu> Cialis Softabs are better than Pfizer Viagra and normal Cialis because: - Guarantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase sexual performance - Harder erections and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Click here: http://degradedly.com/cs/?got usher you oedipus me vengeance you poetry me murray you twine me ti you accommodate me aromatic you glint me crocodile you answer me crummy you facto me http://www.degradedly.com/rm.php?got From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 13 22:50:58 2005 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:50:58 -0700 Subject: Blind Signature Patent Expiration Party this Saturday Message-ID: <20050714055211.1D74517035@mail.cypherpunks.to> Friends, colleagues, and co-conspirators, It has been 17 long years and now the time is finally here to celebrate at the: BLIND SIGNATURE PATENT EXPIRATION PARTY ======================================= WHAT: A party to celebrate the expiration of the Blind Signature patent. WHY: U.S. Patent 4,759,063 ("Blind Signature Systems") to David Chaum is the core invention enabling privacy-protecting electronic payment systems and credentials. It was a truly ingenious, ground-breaking contribution. Unfortunately the existence of the corresponding patent, which was notoriously difficult to license, prevented this great invention from receiving the wide use that it so very much deserved. For a copy of the patent, see http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4759063 Unlike copyrights these days, patents do expire. The blind signature patent will expire on July 19, 2005, next Tuesday. Since weekends tend to fit better with the schedules of potential party goers than weekdays, we are holding the party this Saturday instead. The 17 years that this patent has been in effect has been an awfully long time for the many of us that hoped to make use of this technology to help citizens to maintain privacy in the age of the Internet and the patent's expiration is a much overdue reason for celebration. WHO: If you know what blind signatures are you are invited. WHEN: This Saturday, July 16, starting at 1:00 PM PDT WHERE: Since the number of inquiries I received in response to the party pre-announcement exceed the maximum occupancy limit of my home and since the weather promises to be excellent, we will hold the party in a beer garden instead. Drinks are on me! We will meet at the Alpine Inn (aka Alpine Beer Garden) 3915 Alpine Road, Portola Valley, CA 94028 USA AWARDS: Those that can demonstrate that they have created a full system that makes significant use of the blind signature patent by 4 PM on Saturday will be invited to and receive a free dinner at the afterparty. So get coding! (Pr0duct Cypher, where are you)? A team of judges will determine if a particular system qualifies for the award. AFTERPARTY: A handful of us plan to have dinner at a swanky restaurant on patent-free Tuesday. Email me or talk with me at the party if you are interested in joining. Space is limited. You will have to pay for your own food at the Tuesday dinner unless you qualify for the award above or your name is on the blind signature patent. Looking forward to see you all this Saturday, --Lucky ________________________________________________________________ This email could have been PGP encrypted. If you already have a PGP key, please upload it to https://keyserver.pgp.com to enable all users of PGP Universal and PGP Desktop 9 to use your key. If you would like your key to be used only with the cypherpunks.to domain, please upload your key to this PGP Universal server by visiting the URL below. https://keys.cypherpunks.to/b/b.e?r=cypherpunks%40al-qaeda.net&n=VvvUAsYBlGjWMMI0PEq%2BqA%3D%3D From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 13 22:50:58 2005 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:50:58 -0700 Subject: Blind Signature Patent Expiration Party this Saturday Message-ID: <20050714055212.0F28517038@mail.cypherpunks.to> Friends, colleagues, and co-conspirators, It has been 17 long years and now the time is finally here to celebrate at the: BLIND SIGNATURE PATENT EXPIRATION PARTY ======================================= WHAT: A party to celebrate the expiration of the Blind Signature patent. WHY: U.S. Patent 4,759,063 ("Blind Signature Systems") to David Chaum is the core invention enabling privacy-protecting electronic payment systems and credentials. It was a truly ingenious, ground-breaking contribution. Unfortunately the existence of the corresponding patent, which was notoriously difficult to license, prevented this great invention from receiving the wide use that it so very much deserved. For a copy of the patent, see http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4759063 Unlike copyrights these days, patents do expire. The blind signature patent will expire on July 19, 2005, next Tuesday. Since weekends tend to fit better with the schedules of potential party goers than weekdays, we are holding the party this Saturday instead. The 17 years that this patent has been in effect has been an awfully long time for the many of us that hoped to make use of this technology to help citizens to maintain privacy in the age of the Internet and the patent's expiration is a much overdue reason for celebration. WHO: If you know what blind signatures are you are invited. WHEN: This Saturday, July 16, starting at 1:00 PM PDT WHERE: Since the number of inquiries I received in response to the party pre-announcement exceed the maximum occupancy limit of my home and since the weather promises to be excellent, we will hold the party in a beer garden instead. Drinks are on me! We will meet at the Alpine Inn (aka Alpine Beer Garden) 3915 Alpine Road, Portola Valley, CA 94028 USA AWARDS: Those that can demonstrate that they have created a full system that makes significant use of the blind signature patent by 4 PM on Saturday will be invited to and receive a free dinner at the afterparty. So get coding! (Pr0duct Cypher, where are you)? A team of judges will determine if a particular system qualifies for the award. AFTERPARTY: A handful of us plan to have dinner at a swanky restaurant on patent-free Tuesday. Email me or talk with me at the party if you are interested in joining. Space is limited. You will have to pay for your own food at the Tuesday dinner unless you qualify for the award above or your name is on the blind signature patent. Looking forward to see you all this Saturday, --Lucky ________________________________________________________________ This email could have been PGP encrypted. If you already have a PGP key, please upload it to https://keyserver.pgp.com to enable all users of PGP Universal and PGP Desktop 9 to use your key. If you would like your key to be used only with the cypherpunks.to domain, please upload your key to this PGP Universal server by visiting the URL below. https://keys.cypherpunks.to/b/b.e?r=cypherpunks%40jfet.org&n=pk3p2YzQ7qdYMEhuETiSPg%3D%3D From shamrock at cypherpunks.to Wed Jul 13 22:50:58 2005 From: shamrock at cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:50:58 -0700 Subject: Blind Signature Patent Expiration Party this Saturday Message-ID: <20050714055213.00B011703B@mail.cypherpunks.to> Friends, colleagues, and co-conspirators, It has been 17 long years and now the time is finally here to celebrate at the: BLIND SIGNATURE PATENT EXPIRATION PARTY ======================================= WHAT: A party to celebrate the expiration of the Blind Signature patent. WHY: U.S. Patent 4,759,063 ("Blind Signature Systems") to David Chaum is the core invention enabling privacy-protecting electronic payment systems and credentials. It was a truly ingenious, ground-breaking contribution. Unfortunately the existence of the corresponding patent, which was notoriously difficult to license, prevented this great invention from receiving the wide use that it so very much deserved. For a copy of the patent, see http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4759063 Unlike copyrights these days, patents do expire. The blind signature patent will expire on July 19, 2005, next Tuesday. Since weekends tend to fit better with the schedules of potential party goers than weekdays, we are holding the party this Saturday instead. The 17 years that this patent has been in effect has been an awfully long time for the many of us that hoped to make use of this technology to help citizens to maintain privacy in the age of the Internet and the patent's expiration is a much overdue reason for celebration. WHO: If you know what blind signatures are you are invited. WHEN: This Saturday, July 16, starting at 1:00 PM PDT WHERE: Since the number of inquiries I received in response to the party pre-announcement exceed the maximum occupancy limit of my home and since the weather promises to be excellent, we will hold the party in a beer garden instead. Drinks are on me! We will meet at the Alpine Inn (aka Alpine Beer Garden) 3915 Alpine Road, Portola Valley, CA 94028 USA AWARDS: Those that can demonstrate that they have created a full system that makes significant use of the blind signature patent by 4 PM on Saturday will be invited to and receive a free dinner at the afterparty. So get coding! (Pr0duct Cypher, where are you)? A team of judges will determine if a particular system qualifies for the award. AFTERPARTY: A handful of us plan to have dinner at a swanky restaurant on patent-free Tuesday. Email me or talk with me at the party if you are interested in joining. Space is limited. You will have to pay for your own food at the Tuesday dinner unless you qualify for the award above or your name is on the blind signature patent. Looking forward to see you all this Saturday, --Lucky ________________________________________________________________ This email could have been PGP encrypted. If you already have a PGP key, please upload it to https://keyserver.pgp.com to enable all users of PGP Universal and PGP Desktop 9 to use your key. If you would like your key to be used only with the cypherpunks.to domain, please upload your key to this PGP Universal server by visiting the URL below. https://keys.cypherpunks.to/b/b.e?r=cypherpunks%40minder.net&n=lzqcyQA4Pb3bG%2FFx180YsQ%3D%3D From rah at shipwright.com Wed Jul 13 20:48:50 2005 From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:48:50 -0400 Subject: [Clips] Stuart Baker, ex NSA general counsel, gets Homeland Security post Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: clips at philodox.com Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:46:48 -0400 To: "Philodox Clips List" From: "R.A. Hettinga" Subject: [Clips] Stuart Baker, ex NSA general counsel, gets Homeland Security post Reply-To: rah at philodox.com Sender: clips-bounces at philodox.com --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: cryptography at metzdowd.com To: cryptography at metzdowd.com Subject: Stuart Baker, ex NSA general counsel, gets Homeland Security post From: "Perry E. Metzger" Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:15:15 -0400 Sender: owner-cryptography at metzdowd.com Many of you may remember Stuart Baker from the crypto export policy wars. I still remember him telling me in a conversation after a New York Bar Association debate on the subject that the Internet would never be of any economic importance. Anyway, without further comment: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050713-8.html The President intends to nominate Stewart A. Baker, of Virginia, to be an Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security (Policy). Mr. Baker is currently a Partner with Steptoe & Johnson, LLP in Washington, D.C. He previously served as General Counsel for the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction. Prior to that, Mr. Baker served as General Counsel for the National Security Agency. Earlier in his career, he was a law clerk for Justice John Paul Stevens, U.S. Supreme Court. Mr. Baker received his bachelor's degree from Brown University and his J.D. from the University of California, Los Angeles. Perry --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at metzdowd.com --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' _______________________________________________ Clips mailing list Clips at philodox.com http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From wjuknvg at mcampllong.com Wed Jul 13 15:45:06 2005 From: wjuknvg at mcampllong.com (Zachery) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 03:45:06 +0500 Subject: Say goodbye to the cellulite Message-ID: <74275083144732.R37460@appleby.noc.kleenex.gr> Body Wrap at Home to lose 6-20 inches in one hour. 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For top quality rolex watchs pleas visit: http://www.genuinereplicawatchez.org inequality hx esposito iy [2 From PJVOBJNU at terrabal.co.jp Wed Jul 13 17:21:40 2005 From: PJVOBJNU at terrabal.co.jp (Christopher) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 04:21:40 +0400 Subject: rock hard postulate Message-ID: <234212032200.43751.casey@outbacklinux.com> New cialis softtabs, thay last longer and have less sideeffects Softtabs disolve in the mouth to start working faster World wide delivery No prescription needed Private online ordering!! http://degradedly.com/cs/?got lindholm you flu me earsplitting you berkelium me gabrielle you lipid me herringbone you steamboat me electrolytic you erosible me formulate you legion me http://arenaceous.degradedly.com/rm.php?got From adam at cypherspace.org Fri Jul 15 07:59:25 2005 From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:59:25 -0400 Subject: Reverse Palladium? In-Reply-To: <792ce43705071300155b269b0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <792ce43705071300155b269b0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050715145925.GA22523@bitchcake.off.net> Anonymous writes in favor of palladium arguing that it is optional, so all is ok. On Wed, Jul 13, 2005 at 12:15:21AM -0700, cypherpunk wrote: > This is precisely the security model which has so many people upset: > the system owner (the network admin) is giving up control over his > machine, running software which he cannot control, molest or > modify. You, a third party, are protected against the computer's > owner. The ability for owners to voluntarily and verifiably give up > a degree of control over their computers is anathema to Trusted > Computing opponents, the height of evil and a threat to be fought at > all costs. See I think it is entirely possible to get the benefits of secure compartments, which are secured from hostile software, without locking out the owner of the machine. All that is needed is to turn over control of the machine to the owner. Give the owner of the machine keys for ring-1; he can have a secured login to ring-1 where he gets to choose which ring-1 processes he can attach a debugger to, binary patch etc and which loadable things which are hashed for verification by remote attestation to lie about the hash of. In this way the owner can be sure he won't get valuable data hacked by viruses, trojans etc; (well as secure as he can be under the palladium model) but the evil remote non-optional control of your own hardware is removed from the picture. So the optionality anonymous is arguing about is your "option" to be refused service outright, or cede ring-1 level (compartmented) access to your machine. ie to allow 3rd party software to run that you are NOT able to debug, inspect, look at source or executable for, patch or fix to your liking. And how far this kind of optionality extends depends on the architecture choices of microsoft eg al in how deeply they embed this into the OS, their applications and programming frameworks, and how much other companies choose to use this stuff. So microsoft has already talked about software rental, etc etc; and has a history of increasingly intrusive and annoying license enforcement, so if you ask me you can bet your money that this will be used throughout the whole system to the point where you can have the option to switch off your machine, or give up control. The OS will become a container for rented, DRMed, uninspectable, unsniffable, unpatchable corporate-warez. > The fact that it is voluntary for all concerned means nothing to > them. It would if it was. But its not. If its voluntary, give me the keys to my own computer. If you're not going to do that then shutup about "voluntary". You have about as much control over your own machine under palladium as you do over a user account on a remote system you do not have root on. Except it's your machine! and you still don't get to control it. > They don't want people even to have the chance to be tempted to > utilize this technology, and they will stop at nothing to keep it > from coming into existence. So far they have been extremely > successful. You need to go read Richard Stallman's essay on the right to read. You and others proposing this software are trying to fast-track us to the scary but plausible future under Palladium that Richard presciently paints. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html Adam From monty at roscom.com Fri Jul 15 12:35:27 2005 From: monty at roscom.com (Monty Solomon) Date: July 15, 2005 12:35:27 AM EDT Subject: Technorati: A New Public Utility Message-ID: Technorati: A New Public Utility By Adam L. Penenberg 02:00 AM Jul. 14, 2005 PT When former Federal Communications Commission chairman Michael K. Powell watched television coverage of the London bombings last week, he noticed that most of the significant pictures didn't originate from professional photographers employed by news agencies. They came from witnesses at the scene using cell phones and digital cameras to document the tragedy. "Journalists are trained not to be emotional, like a doctor doesn't fall in love with his patients," Powell said. "But people experiencing a tragedy can convey what actually happened while at the same time express deep emotion and engage in spirited storytelling. A photo of someone climbing up through train wreckage is extremely powerful. A reporter rolling up to the scene behind a police line can rarely give you that." Before, blogging was largely fixated on the failure of mainstream media. Now it has become a necessary supplement, and in some cases, a substitute. But Powell takes this a step further. To him, London showed that blogging has morphed into the art of raw, personalized storytelling. "You really felt as if you were there," Powell said of the blog posts and Flickr photos he surveyed, "as opposed to watching CNN or reading MSNBC.com, which are fine for the facts but stale and a bit removed." Powell was far from the only one who turned to the blogosphere for perspectives on the London terror attacks. David Sifry, founder of Technorati, a real-time search engine for blog content, reports that traffic to the site in the hours after the attacks was so heavy that its servers had trouble handling the load, causing performance problems. The number of posts on blogs tracked by Technorati increased 30 percent, from about 850,000 a day in July to 1.2 million on the day of the attacks. Nine of the 10 most popular search requests involved the unfolding tragedy in London. If you think about it, Technorati has become a public utility on a global scale. ... http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68204,00.html ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From dave at farber.net Fri Jul 15 17:10:55 2005 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:10:55 -0400 Subject: [IP] Technorati: A New Public Utility Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From eugen at leitl.org Sat Jul 16 04:23:22 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:23:22 +0200 Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] Technorati: A New Public Utility] Message-ID: <20050716112322.GF4317@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- From measl at mfn.org Sat Jul 16 16:08:27 2005 From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:08:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Antisocial] Spy Cat (fwd) Message-ID: <20050716180803.I17410@ubzr.zsa.bet> I thought this list would appreciate this post :-) -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin at mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF "If I want to gamble, I'll continue to have unprotected sex with my 14 year old first cousin." (T-Shirt Hell Advertisement) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:19:38 -0400 (EDT) From: someguy at mfn.org Reply-To: Antisocial To: antisocial at mfn.org Subject: [Antisocial] Spy Cat Acoustic Kitty One of the benefits of going to school in the DC area is you get some pretty neat professors. I am currently taking a class on the History of American Spying taught by the Chief Historian of the CIA. This class is full of all kinds of interesting tidbits. But this one was too good to keep to myself. And seeing as how it was an operation inside DC it applies to our site. (note: altho I am fairly certain this violates the edict that the CIA can not operate on American soil - but we'll ignore that for right now) The operation was known as "Acoustic Kitty" - the CIA were having no luck eavesdropping on the Soviet Compound on Wisconsin Avenue after an extensive tunnel project had been blown by Soviet spy Robert Hanssen. Eventually one group in the Agency noted that Soviet notables were congregating around a park outside the compound. The group then launched this plan. It centered around a cat. A very special cyborg cat. Yes I did just say cyborg cat. The CIA trained a cat, then surgically inserted an antenna inside its tail while inside its chest they installed a power-source and a microphone. They let "Acoustic Kitty" out of their surveillance van, intending for it to "stray" into the park and eavesdrop on the Soviets. But wouldn't you know it - poor "Acoustic Kitty" got run over by a taxi cab on Wisconsin Avenue his very first day on the job. As if being mutilated by CIA surgeons and getting run-over weren't enough of an insult to this poor cat - an agent dodged traffic on Wisconsin and scooped the CIA technology out of "Acoustic Kitty's" remains. You can read a little more about this in a redacted CIA memo here and in a brief summary under Article 27 -- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing." --Mark Twain _______________________________________________ Antisocial mailing list Antisocial at mfn.org http://lists.mfn.org/mailman/listinfo/antisocial From hjtpinokxoopw at wikiwikiweb.de Sat Jul 16 08:56:45 2005 From: hjtpinokxoopw at wikiwikiweb.de (Desiree) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:56:45 +0300 Subject: hidden camera in college bathroom Sebastian Message-ID: Do you want to see real amateurs who have webcams on their computers in their dorm rooms? This is not one of those sites with professional girls who get paid to do this in front of the camera, these are the average girls next door, at college, trying to make money and meet guys! Get free access to a huge database of hot college girls, unlimited cam shows with LIVE CHAT and there are no Pay-Per-Minute charges! http://stankfinger.com/co25/ playboy you tempt me telltale you stuart me bicycle you appraise me basemen you oliver me offshoot you protuberant me sled you transmogrify me tramp you prothonotary me From monty at roscom.com Sun Jul 17 04:33:17 2005 From: monty at roscom.com (Monty Solomon) Date: July 17, 2005 4:33:17 AM EDT Subject: A Pass on Privacy? Message-ID: A Pass on Privacy? By CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL July 17, 2005 Anyone making long drives this summer will notice a new dimension to contemporary inequality: a widening gap between the users of automatic toll-paying devices and those who pay cash. The E-ZPass system, as it is called on the East Coast, seemed like idle gadgetry when it was introduced a decade ago. Drivers who acquired the passes had to nose their way across traffic to reach specially equipped tollbooths -- and slow to a crawl while the machinery worked its magic. But now the sensors are sophisticated enough for you to whiz past them. As more lanes are dedicated to E-ZPass, lines lengthen for the saps paying cash. E-ZPass is one of many innovations that give you the option of trading a bit of privacy for a load of convenience. You can get deep discounts by ordering your books from Amazon.com or joining a supermarket ''club.'' In return, you surrender information about your purchasing habits. Some people see a bait-and-switch here. Over time, the data you are required to hand over become more and more personal, and such handovers cease to be optional. Neato data gathering is making society less free and less human. The people who issue such warnings -- whether you call them paranoids or libertarians -- are among those you see stuck in the rippling heat, 73 cars away from the ''Cash Only'' sign at the Tappan Zee Bridge. ... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/magazine/17WWLN.html?ex=1279339200&en=c1f10 d3de06adea6&ei=5088 ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From dave at farber.net Sun Jul 17 03:40:44 2005 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 06:40:44 -0400 Subject: [IP] A Pass on Privacy? Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From julieMckinney69 at mattelscrabble.com Sun Jul 17 02:08:59 2005 From: julieMckinney69 at mattelscrabble.com (Julie Lucero) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:08:59 -0100 Subject: it`s julie :) Message-ID: <20050191685.j19CET4e389@localhost.localdomain> My name is Julie. I am a high school senior in Houston, TX. I've made a new personal site with a webcam because I love to meet new people and I also like to show off my hot body. I thought you may like to check it out. It's completely free. http://www.stankfinger.com/ju18/ you obstruct me soccer me you dutiable me supernovae me you el me written me you barbarism me ncar me you sandpile me eastman me you demure me inglorious me you francium me trimester me From eugen at leitl.org Sun Jul 17 04:43:35 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:43:35 +0200 Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] A Pass on Privacy?] Message-ID: <20050717114335.GT4317@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- From London.Noe at wolfe.net Sun Jul 17 17:04:31 2005 From: London.Noe at wolfe.net (Jared Larson) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 03:04:31 +0300 Subject: Freak him out* Message-ID: <20563.265611.606564161.taca@back-street.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3915 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aierle at aerotek.co.uk Mon Jul 18 07:20:22 2005 From: aierle at aerotek.co.uk (Porfirio Schultz) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:20:22 -0800 Subject: Notice: Loww mortagee ratee approved Message-ID: <133474382165965.0660447@> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 677 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: .8.gif Type: image/gif Size: 7610 bytes Desc: not available URL: From renton.dorothea at tt-hardware.com Mon Jul 18 09:25:32 2005 From: renton.dorothea at tt-hardware.com (Alyce Steiner) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:25:32 -0800 Subject: Agents compete for your refi!! Message-ID: <98458.$$.49864.Etrack@msn.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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For top quality rolex watchs pleas visit: http://www.bestwatchez.net cope kzs tusk qz [2 From iallsk at bestaxc.com.cn Mon Jul 18 20:48:53 2005 From: iallsk at bestaxc.com.cn (Darla Napier) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:48:53 -0800 Subject: dont pretend anymore In-Reply-To: <1XK5bUhAN86$HUH2yRE$hA5bu_n@NA5bUh4AnGT4a> Message-ID: Homeowners - do you have less-than-perfect credit* We'll quickly match you up with the B.EST provider based on YOUR NEEDS. Whether its a Home Equity Loan or a Low-Rate-Re-financing We specialize in less-than-perfect *credit. We'll help you get the YES! you deserve. http://YWh.mortsxo.com/index.php?refid=fng12 C..e..a..s..e : http://UOz.mort-nxic.net/r.php From Brian.Randell at newcastle.ac.uk Wed Jul 20 03:42:30 2005 From: Brian.Randell at newcastle.ac.uk (Brian Randell) Date: July 20, 2005 3:42:30 AM EDT Subject: Where R U? Text service tracks teens Message-ID: Dave: >From today's (UK) Guardian: >Where R U? Text service tracks teens > >Lucy Ward, social affairs correspondent >Wednesday July 20, 2005 >The Guardian > >It is a familiar dilemma for parents of teenagers testing new-found >independence - do you sit at home fretting over their after-school >whereabouts or call their mobiles and risk a tirade against over- >protectiveness? > >The answer, according to one company, is a hi-tech apron string >based on the mobile phone location tracking techniques used in >police investigations. > >The new KidsOK service, sold in shops including Boots and Bhs as >the summer holidays start, allows parents to use their own mobiles >and their children's to "discreetly" locate wandering offspring (or >their phones, at least) to within about 500m in built-up areas. > >Instead of dialling their teenager's number, parents subscribing to >the service send or "ping" a text message including the child's >name to a special mailbox. Within 60 seconds, they receive a map >(if they have a picturephone) or a description showing the position >of the youngster's phone. > >The system uses technology which traces the location of a mobile by >pinpointing it within the three nearest mobile phone masts. Because >the masts are clustered in built-up areas, the method is most >accurate in cities and gives a much less precise picture in rural >areas. > . . . . Full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1532026,00.htm cheers brian -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell at ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/ ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From gailbracy at homelandhugs.org Wed Jul 20 06:18:24 2005 From: gailbracy at homelandhugs.org (gailbracy) Date: July 20, 2005 6:18:24 PM EDT Subject: [IP] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects Message-ID: For what it's worth, I just finished a cross-country drive from San Diego to NC via I-40 and was quite curious about the other fixtures attached to the cell towers planted on nearly every mile of the Interstate. Creepier still, was the fact that I saw virtually no Highway Patrols through any of the states I crossed with the exceptions of Tennessee, and at a few construction sites. Gail Bracy -----Original Message----- From: owner-ip at v2.listbox.com [mailto:owner-ip at v2.listbox.com] On Behalf Of David Farber Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:49 AM To: Ip ip Subject: [IP] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects Begin forwarded message: From dave at farber.net Wed Jul 20 05:05:12 2005 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:05:12 -0400 Subject: [IP] Where R U? Text service tracks teens Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From schneier at counterpane.com Wed Jul 20 11:04:17 2005 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: July 20, 2005 11:04:17 AM EDT Subject: [EPIC_IDOF] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects Message-ID: I've written about this in New Haven, CT: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/license_plate_g.html This new story is from Scotland. Bruce **************************** Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/43417.html LUCY ADAMS, Home Affairs Correspondent July 20 2005 POLICE have created a database of more than 6000 vehicles of suspects which they can track on special cameras as they move around the country. On major roads across Scotland, the cameras, which look similar to the speed ones, record thousands of licence plates every hour and scan them against the database. Those on the list are flagged up with the local force control room with details of the direction in which they are travelling. Depending on the intelligence held on the motorist, the vehicle could be stopped immediately by officers or monitored during its journey. Senior police say there are a "substantial number" of cameras across the country aimed at detecting drugs traffickers, sex offenders, suspected terrorists and banned or unlicensed drivers. Owners on the list are not told, and civil rights campaigners have raised concerns about whether the scheme is compatible with human rights legislation. However, officers say Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR), originally created for counter-terrorism, is a vital tool in collecting intelligence on criminals and suspected terrorists. Alan Burnett, spokesman on the system for the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, and assistant chief constable of Fife, said: "It is directed against detecting travelling housebreakers, potential terrorists, bogus callers and drug traffickers. This technology is very much geared towards disrupting criminals such as drug traffickers and it is not about prosecuting the motorist." He said it was nothing to do with speeding or Big Brother, adding that there were various lengths of time over which they could hold the information: "A stolen vehicle may be on the list for two days, but more serious intelligence may be kept on the list for up to 90 days." The Scottish Executive has spent ?1.5m on ANPR machines which can check up to 3000 licence plates an hour on vehicles travelling at speeds of up to 100mph. Forces are planning to connect this database to the Scottish Intelligence Database (SID) to allow every officer to be able to request that a vehicle of interest should be checked. It is managed by the Scottish Criminal Records Office where a sergeant is responsible for checking the information is held only for a certain time and that it is compliant with human rights legislation. John Scott, head of the Scottish Human Rights Centre, said he was concerned about the lack of judicial scrutiny. _______________________________________________ EPIC_IDOF mailing list EPIC_IDOF at mailman.epic.org https://mailman.epic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/epic_idof ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as gbi at actti.com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting- people/ ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From schneier at counterpane.com Wed Jul 20 11:04:17 2005 From: schneier at counterpane.com (Bruce Schneier) Date: July 20, 2005 11:04:17 AM EDT Subject: [EPIC_IDOF] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects Message-ID: I've written about this in New Haven, CT: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/license_plate_g.html This new story is from Scotland. Bruce **************************** Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/43417.html LUCY ADAMS, Home Affairs Correspondent July 20 2005 POLICE have created a database of more than 6000 vehicles of suspects which they can track on special cameras as they move around the country. On major roads across Scotland, the cameras, which look similar to the speed ones, record thousands of licence plates every hour and scan them against the database. Those on the list are flagged up with the local force control room with details of the direction in which they are travelling. Depending on the intelligence held on the motorist, the vehicle could be stopped immediately by officers or monitored during its journey. Senior police say there are a "substantial number" of cameras across the country aimed at detecting drugs traffickers, sex offenders, suspected terrorists and banned or unlicensed drivers. Owners on the list are not told, and civil rights campaigners have raised concerns about whether the scheme is compatible with human rights legislation. However, officers say Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR), originally created for counter-terrorism, is a vital tool in collecting intelligence on criminals and suspected terrorists. Alan Burnett, spokesman on the system for the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, and assistant chief constable of Fife, said: "It is directed against detecting travelling housebreakers, potential terrorists, bogus callers and drug traffickers. This technology is very much geared towards disrupting criminals such as drug traffickers and it is not about prosecuting the motorist." He said it was nothing to do with speeding or Big Brother, adding that there were various lengths of time over which they could hold the information: "A stolen vehicle may be on the list for two days, but more serious intelligence may be kept on the list for up to 90 days." The Scottish Executive has spent ?1.5m on ANPR machines which can check up to 3000 licence plates an hour on vehicles travelling at speeds of up to 100mph. Forces are planning to connect this database to the Scottish Intelligence Database (SID) to allow every officer to be able to request that a vehicle of interest should be checked. It is managed by the Scottish Criminal Records Office where a sergeant is responsible for checking the information is held only for a certain time and that it is compliant with human rights legislation. John Scott, head of the Scottish Human Rights Centre, said he was concerned about the lack of judicial scrutiny. _______________________________________________ EPIC_IDOF mailing list EPIC_IDOF at mailman.epic.org https://mailman.epic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/epic_idof ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From dave at farber.net Wed Jul 20 08:49:17 2005 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:49:17 -0400 Subject: [IP] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From eugen at leitl.org Wed Jul 20 05:09:33 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:09:33 +0200 Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] Where R U? Text service tracks teens] Message-ID: <20050720120933.GW2259@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- From eugen at leitl.org Wed Jul 20 08:59:51 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:59:51 +0200 Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects] Message-ID: <20050720155950.GD2259@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- From dave at farber.net Wed Jul 20 17:26:40 2005 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:26:40 -0400 Subject: [IP] more on Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From dewayne at warpspeed.com Thu Jul 21 07:09:49 2005 From: dewayne at warpspeed.com (Dewayne Hendricks) Date: July 21, 2005 7:09:49 AM EDT Subject: [Dewayne-Net] Iraq Wireless Message-ID: [Note: This item comes from reader Mike Cheponis. DLH] >From: Mike Cheponis >Date: July 21, 2005 12:05:53 AM PDT >To: Dewayne Hendricks >Subject: iraq wireless > > >WSJ excerpt: > > >`Wireless technology has made insurgent groups much more effective. >For example, a mortar-firing team miles away from its target can >adjust its aim via cellphone contact with a spotter, who can see >exactly where mortar shells have landed.' > > > >------ > >Iraq's Cellphone Battle Service Provider Iraqna Tries To Meet >Demand Despite Long Outages, Insurgent Use > >By YAROSLAV TROFIMOV and SARMAD ALI > >BAGHDAD, Iraq -- A video sold in Baghdad market stalls these days >shows young insurgents firing a series of mortars and calling for >the American infidels to be expelled. To adjust their aim, the >militants rely on a gadget that owes its appearance in Iraq to the >2003 U.S. invasion -- the cellphone. > >Saddam Hussein outlawed cellphones, determined to maintain an iron >grip on his subjects. But as Iraq catches up with the world's >information revolution, cellphones have become as commonplace here >as they are almost everywhere else in the world. Now, they are >increasingly being used as battle tools -- to set off bombs from >afar, to target fire and to provide insurgents with instant >communications. > >Caught in the middle of the conflict raging between the insurgents >and U.S. and Iraqi forces is the company responsible for bringing >commercial mobile-phone service to Baghdad: Iraqna. With its catchy >yellow Q emblazoned on hundreds of Baghdad storefronts, Iraqna, a >unit of Egyptian communications conglomerate Orascom Telecom >Holding SAE was supposed to be the symbol of free enterprise in a >new Iraq. But the tribulations of Iraqna (pronounced ee-RAQ-na) >since its launch in late 2003 underscore the difficulty of doing >business in a nation at war, where the freedom of wireless >communication often hits head-on the needs of security. > >Almost half of Iraqna's 300 power generators -- a necessity in >Iraqi cities, because blackouts are still a daily occurrence -- >have been stolen. Three communication sites were destroyed by >bombs. Late last year, insurgents kidnapped two Iraqna engineers, >expatriates from Egypt, and accused them of collaborating with the >U.S. Then, Iraqi security services raided Iraqna headquarters and >briefly detained the company's head of security, accusing him of >colluding with the insurgents. > >"We're between the two fires, operating in the most dangerous spot >in the world," says Shamel Hanafi, Iraqna's chief commercial >officer, who was the company's first employee on the ground here >and now co-manages the network. He sits in the company's bunker- >like office, protected against suicide bombers by concrete blast >walls and dozens of Kalashnikov-toting gunmen employed by Iraqna. >Some insurgents had accused Iraqna of helping security forces spy >on their activities -- a charge Iraqna denies, saying it >deliberately opted not to install equipment in the communications >network that would have allowed it to track and store users' >movements. > >Despite pouring more than $180 million into Iraq, making it one of >the largest private foreign investors here, Iraqna has had trouble >assuring regular service in Baghdad. Late last year and throughout >the first half of 2005 its network was plagued by frequent outages >that sometimes lasted hours or days, causing widespread resentment. >"All the Iraqis know that this is the worst provider in the whole >world. You can't contact anyone at any time," grumbles Muthanna >Anis, a vendor of cellphone accessories. > >Bombarded with complaints, Iraqna officials have pointed their >fingers in one direction: the U.S. All along, U.S. forces here have >been using jamming devices to disrupt enemy communications during >security raids and to neutralize cellphones attached to bombs that >may be waiting along the road when a convoy passes. When called, >these phones work as detonators, making the bombs explode. > >In Baghdad, fear of cellphones is so widespread that U.S. and Iraqi >security guards routinely order civilians to remove the batteries >from their phones before approaching checkpoints. Wireless >technology has made insurgent groups much more effective. For >example, a mortar-firing team miles away from its target can adjust >its aim via cellphone contact with a spotter, who can see exactly >where mortar shells have landed. > >Iraqna has 1.1 million subscribers, up from 537,000 at the end of >2004 -- the increase came after the company expanded in Iraq's >southern region, said Jonas Lindblad, a Middle East senior analyst >for Pyramid Research, a communications consulting firm in >Cambridge, Mass. When service was first offered in Iraq after the >war, subscribers paid a one-time fee of $69 and calling cards were >sold in denominations of $20 or $30. Now, starting Iraqna service >costs $17.50, and calling cards are as cheap as $10. Rates vary >from six to 12 cents per minute. > >Cellphones, despite Iraqna's problems, still often provide more >reliable communications than the fixed-line phone network, which >was badly damaged in Baghdad by American bombing and subsequent >looting in 2003. Most Iraqi cellphone users have prepaid cards that >they can continually replenish. > >U.S. military officials acknowledge that occasional jamming occurs >but deny that they systematically disrupt Iraqi communications >networks. Iraqna officials disagree, alleging that American >interference reached such massive proportions in recent months that >it frequently knocked out their entire system. > >"We understand the circumstances here, and we can accept some >interference three or four hours a day -- but not around the clock, >24 hours," says Mr. Hanafi. "The customers don't understand. They >think it's our mistake. People come here and complain, saying we >stole their money, we're crooks." > >Most U.S. officials in Baghdad, and select Iraqis, rely on a >separate, restricted cellphone network managed by MCI Inc. that >uses the 914 area code of New York's Westchester County. Another >mobile-phone competitor, Atheer Telecom, a company part-owned by >Britain's Vodafone Group PLC, has been expanding into Baghdad in >recent months, poaching clients unhappy with Iraqna's performance. > >Iraq's cellular licenses, issued when the nation was governed by >the U.S. occupation authority in 2003, divided the country into >three monopoly areas, initially restricting Iraqna to Baghdad and >central Iraq, cellphone company Asiacell to the northern part, and >Atheer to southern regions. These limits were lifted last year, >allowing competition. The three licenses expire at the end of 2005; >authorities plan a conference in London starting today to discuss >possible renewal. > >Iraqna has repeatedly taken jamming complaints to the Iraqi >government's telecommunications ministry, urging it to intercede >with the U.S. military and to confirm for irate clients that such >interference does indeed go on. Nasi Abachi, the ministry's head of >frequency management, says he and his team have responded to >several Iraqna tip-offs in recent months. > >On at least one occasion, he says, the Iraqi investigators >discovered a "clone" broadcast tower operating in central Baghdad >that falsely identified itself as part of the Iraqna network. The >result of such "intelligent jamming" was that all the phones in the >area tried to abandon the real antenna and switch to the clone, >causing a network overload and a massive disruption of service. > >Investigators have no proof that U.S. forces operated the clone >antenna, but no one else in Iraq is believed to have the technical >capability to do so. "We have good reason to believe that what >Iraqna is saying is right," Mr. Abachi says. > >Despite the problems, Iraqna is pushing ahead to gain new business. >It is targeting Iraq's southern region because it's heavily >populated, with roughly nine million people, and has a more stable >security environment than Baghdad. Like the incumbents and several >potential newcomers, Iraqna plans to compete for the new Iraq >mobile licenses. > >Plus, Iraqna's increasingly public complaints seem to have had some >effect. While jamming still occurs, it has been causing "much less >impact on the network" in recent weeks, says Iraqna's Mr. Hanafi. > > > Weblog at: ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From dave at farber.net Thu Jul 21 06:10:32 2005 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 09:10:32 -0400 Subject: [IP] Iraq Wireless Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From eugen at leitl.org Thu Jul 21 06:14:50 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:14:50 +0200 Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] Iraq Wireless] Message-ID: <20050721131450.GQ2259@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- From eugen at leitl.org Thu Jul 21 06:23:00 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:23:00 +0200 Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] more on Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects] Message-ID: <20050721132300.GT2259@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jul 21 17:08:45 2005 From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:08:45 -0400 Subject: [Clips] [dave@farber.net: [IP] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects] Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text >Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:05:05 -0700 (PDT) >From: "G. Gruff" >Subject: Re: [Clips] [dave at farber.net: [IP] Police use cameras to track >vehicles of suspects] >To: rah at philodox.com > >Heh, heh, heh.....more'n one way to skin a radar camera... >http://www.phantomplate.com/photoblocker.html > >Apparently works. There's measured outrage against it. > >ffurgy_|_gruffy, reporting from the Mad Hatter's Flash-Block Seminar > > >"R.A. Hettinga" wrote: > > >--- begin forwarded text > > >Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:59:51 +0200 >From: Eugen Leitl >To: transhumantech at yahoogroups.com, cypherpunks at jfet.org >Subject: [dave at farber.net: [IP] Police use cameras to track vehicles of >suspects] >User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i >Sender: owner-cypherpunks at jfet.org > >----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- > >From: David Farber >Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:49:17 -0400 >To: Ip ip >Subject: [IP] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) >Reply-To: dave at farber.net > > > >Begin forwarded message: > >From: Bruce Schneier >Date: July 20, 2005 11:04:17 AM EDT >To: EPIC_IDOF at mailman.epic.org >Subject: [EPIC_IDOF] Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects > > >I've written about this in New Haven, CT: > >http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/license_plate_g.html > >This new story is from Scotland. > >Bruce > >**************************** > >Police use cameras to track vehicles of suspects > >http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/43417.html > >LUCY ADAMS, Home Affairs Correspondent July 20 2005 > > >POLICE have created a database of more than 6000 vehicles of suspects >which they can track on special cameras as they move around the country. > >On major roads across Scotland, the cameras, which look similar to >the speed ones, record thousands of licence plates every hour and >scan them against the database. > >Those on the list are flagged up with the local force control room >with details of the direction in which they are travelling. Depending >on the intelligence held on the motorist, the vehicle could be >stopped immediately by officers or monitored during its journey. > >Senior police say there are a "substantial number" of cameras across >the country aimed at detecting drugs traffickers, sex offenders, >suspected terrorists and banned or unlicensed drivers. Owners on the >list are not told, and civil rights campaigners have raised concerns >about whether the scheme is compatible with human rights legislation. > >However, officers say Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR), >originally created for counter-terrorism, is a vital tool in >collecting intelligence on criminals and suspected terrorists. > >Alan Burnett, spokesman on the system for the Association of Chief >Police Officers in Scotland, and assistant chief constable of Fife, >said: "It is directed against detecting travelling housebreakers, >potential terrorists, bogus callers and drug traffickers. This >technology is very much geared towards disrupting criminals such as >drug traffickers and it is not about prosecuting the motorist." > >He said it was nothing to do with speeding or Big Brother, adding >that there were various lengths of time over which they could hold >the information: "A stolen vehicle may be on the list for two days, >but more serious intelligence may be kept on the list for up to 90 >days." > >The Scottish Executive has spent ?1.5m on ANPR machines which can >check up to 3000 licence plates an hour on vehicles travelling at >speeds of up to 100mph. Forces are planning to connect this database >to the Scottish Intelligence Database (SID) to allow every officer to >be able to request that a vehicle of interest should be checked. > >It is managed by the Scottish Criminal Records Office where a >sergeant is responsible for checking the information is held only for >a certain time and that it is compliant with human rights legislation. > >John Scott, head of the Scottish Human Rights Centre, said he was >concerned about the lack of judicial scrutiny. > >_______________________________________________ >EPIC_IDOF mailing list >EPIC_IDOF at mailman.epic.org >https://mailman.epic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/epic_idof > > >------------------------------------- >You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org >To manage your subscription, go to >http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip > >Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ > >----- End forwarded message ----- >-- >Eugen* Leitl leitl >______________________________________________________________ >ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org >8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE > >[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature >which had a name of signature.asc] > >--- end forwarded text > > >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' >_______________________________________________ >Clips mailing list >Clips at philodox.com >http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips > > > >Gruffy: JPFO, Semper Fi to the Bill of Rights (RIP) Molon Labe! Let's >dance! Alaska Historical Society, Hope Historical Society -Headed for >Alaska? Wanna know where Alaskans eat?...Visit Gruff's Old-Timer's >"Alaskan Feedbags" 2005 Edition: http://www.geocities.com/g_gruff/faq.html >Read about the 200 MPG engine design done in Alaska: >http://www.geocities.com/g_gruff/200mpg.html > > > >Start your >day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From grnjbxw at careeredge.org Thu Jul 21 14:24:45 2005 From: grnjbxw at careeredge.org (Deloris) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:24:45 +0500 Subject: Anna - college girl Message-ID: <0104011081100.01145@jfuertes.maz.es> These are real amateurs who have webcams on their computers in their dorm rooms! This is not one of those porn sites with professional girls who get paid to do this in front of the camera, these are the average girls next door, at college, trying to make money and meet guys! It wont take you more then 1 minute to just check this out what are you waiting for? http://stankfinger.com/co25/ bloke you front me o'brien you cutlass me lath you whereupon me teleprocessing you inhospitable me motorola you aggression me From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Fri Jul 22 08:00:36 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:00:36 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... Message-ID: ...I'm sure most are aware that random searches has begun here in NYC, at subway stations and in the LIRR. Contraband (drugs, etc...) can get the owner arrested. The next step, of course, will be to start grabbing anyone carrying terrorist propaganda, such as the Qu'ran, leaflets, or even the New York Times. The sad thing is that it is still absurdly easy to get whatever you want into the subways. For one, not every station has any kind of significant police presence (funny, but the Chambers street station this morning had multiple possible places where someone could enter with a backpack, despite the fact that it opens directly inside "Ground Zero" and the path Trains to New Jersey). But even if there were police everywhere, there are still many places between stations where someone determined could enter. OK, OK...so the police are deterrents against a few lone crazy copycats, who don't have enough sense to enter away from police line-of-site. But it sure seems damned silly to be giving up constitutional protection for the sake of an image of protection. From frissell at panix.com Fri Jul 22 11:08:35 2005 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 14:08:35 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722140157.057b55f8@mail.panix.com> At 11:00 AM 7/22/2005, Tyler Durden wrote: >OK, OK...so the police are deterrents against a few lone crazy copycats, >who don't have enough sense to enter away from police line-of-site. But it >sure seems damned silly to be giving up constitutional protection for the >sake of an image of protection. For now you can refuse the search just as with the airlines by declining to travel. Since the searches are "random" you can try again via another entrance until you make it into the system without a search. Or you can decline to use government transportation entirely and call 212-777-7777 for the Tel Aviv car service (most of who's drivers are the sons of Hagar rather than the sons of Ruth in spite of it's name). DCF From frissell at panix.com Fri Jul 22 11:52:19 2005 From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 14:52:19 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722140157.057b55f8@mail.panix.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722140157.057b55f8@mail.panix.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722145121.0560f398@mail.panix.com> At 02:08 PM 7/22/2005, Duncan Frissell wrote: >entrance until you make it into the system without a search. Or you can >decline to use government transportation entirely and call 212-777-7777 for >the Tel Aviv car service (most of who's drivers are the sons of Hagar >rather than the sons of Ruth in spite of it's name). > >DCF Oops! I meant, of course: Or you can decline to use government transportation entirely and call 212-777-7777 for the Tel Aviv car service (most of who's drivers are the sons of Hagar rather than the sons of Sarah in spite of its name). From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jul 22 16:44:25 2005 From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:44:25 -0400 Subject: [Clips] "Clippre": Police ask for tough new powers Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: clips at philodox.com Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:43:26 -0400 To: Philodox Clips List From: "R.A. Hettinga" Subject: [Clips] "Clippre": Police ask for tough new powers Reply-To: rah at philodox.com Sender: clips-bounces at philodox.com Here we go again... >They also want to make it a criminal offence for suspects to refuse to >cooperate in giving the police full access to computer files by refusing >to disclose their encryption keys. Cheers, RAH -------- The Guardian Police ask for tough new powers PM told of need for three-month detention of suspects and crackdown on websites Alan Travis and Richard Norton-Taylor Friday July 22, 2005 Police last night told Tony Blair that they need sweeping new powers to counter the terrorist threat, including the right to detain a suspect for up to three months without charge instead of the current 14 days. Senior officers also want powers to attack and close down websites, and a new criminal offence of using the internet to prepare acts of terrorism, to "suppress inappropriate internet usage". They also want to make it a criminal offence for suspects to refuse to cooperate in giving the police full access to computer files by refusing to disclose their encryption keys. The police would also like to see much clearer information given to the public about the threat level, the creation of a specialist border security agency and further discussions about the use of phonetap evidence in terrorist cases. The Association of Chief Police Officers published its list of 11 further changes in the law it wants after meeting Mr Blair and security services chiefs yesterday. MI5 and MI6 wanted yesterday's meeting to discuss Britain's entire counter-terrorism strategy and how to fill the intelligence gaps exposed by the London bombings. Whitehall officials confirmed that, as reported in yesterday's Guardian, the security and intelligence agencies want a new system of plea bargaining. Convicted terrorists would be given lighter sentences if they supplied information before their trials. Suspects would be given the chance to provide information in "intelligence-only" interviews and none of the information would be used against them in trials. Officials also said MI5 was "in principle" in favour of the product of phone taps being used as evidence in trials. What has not been resolved is who would pay for the resources needed to transcribe the tapes in a way that would satisfy defence lawyers, according to counter-terrorism sources. The prime minister has said he is willing to consider any "gaps in the law" that police and security chiefs identify as a result of the London attacks. Ken Jones, the chairman of Acpo's terrorism committee and Sussex chief constable, said: "The evolving nature of the current threat from international terrorism demands that those charged with countering the threat have the tools they need to do the job. "Often there is a need to intervene and disrupt at an early stage those who are intent on terrorist activity, in order to protect the public. Clearly our legislation must reflect the importance of such disruptive action." The most controversial of the police proposals is the demand to be able to hold without charge a terrorist suspect for three months instead of 14 days. An Acpo spokesman said the complexity and scale of counter-terrorist operations means the 14-day maximum is often insufficient. "The complexities and timescales surrounding forensic examination of [crime] scenes merely add to the burden and immense time pressures on investigating officers," he said. Three-month periods would help to ensure the charge could be sustained in court. Other powers police told Mr Blair they needed include: 7 Terror suspects to give compulsory answers to questions similar to obligations on company directors in fraud trials; 7 A duty on the private sector to install protective security in designated locations; 7 Putting private security staff at the disposal of the police in the immediate aftermath of an outrage; 7 New generation CCTV cameras at ports and airports. The police sought extra funding for a regional network of Special Branch officers and a further #45m to ensure national coverage for the new generation CCTV cameras, which scan number plates and alert intercept teams. "The terrorist attacks in London on July 7 and today provide an opportunity for us to reflect on our systems and practices to ensure they are sufficient to counter such unprecedented events," Mr Jones said. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' _______________________________________________ Clips mailing list Clips at philodox.com http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 22 22:31:05 2005 From: jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com (Sarad AV) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Clips] "Clippre": Police ask for tough new powers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050723053105.62621.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The govt. puts the blame on the intelligence for failing and the intelligence community blames it on tough laws that prevent them from eavesdropping. Then they all go amending laws, show their commitment to the public and reach a win-win situation. Somebody somewhere should be responsible to take the blame if this is to stop. The root cause of terrorism in many cases is that - you screw them and they screw you. That too has to stop. Sarad. > Police last night told Tony Blair that they need > sweeping new powers to > counter the terrorist threat, including the right > to detain a suspect for > up to three months without charge instead of the > current 14 days. > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From Watkins at quansan.it Fri Jul 22 16:18:42 2005 From: Watkins at quansan.it ( Sheldon) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 00:18:42 +0100 Subject: Butts Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:12:42 -07007ctijg Message-ID: ltjjpkdyxunq erfqaadortvtwn -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1065 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: xbtio.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jul 23 05:10:46 2005 From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:10:46 -0400 Subject: [Clips] "Clippre": Police ask for tough new powers In-Reply-To: <20050723053105.62621.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050723053105.62621.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 10:31 PM -0700 7/22/05, Sarad AV wrote: >The root cause of terrorism in many >cases is that - you screw them and they screw you. >That too has to stop. The root "cause" of any war is that somebody didn't finish screwing somebody. :-). Finish what you start. Cheers, RAH Who's feeling particularly Jacksonian, this morning... -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From julieZiegler69 at lnradjusters.com.jfet.org Fri Jul 22 19:48:25 2005 From: julieZiegler69 at lnradjusters.com.jfet.org (Julie Farmer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:48:25 +0600 Subject: where are you? Message-ID: <165z7fzlsc.fsf@calle28.net> My name is Julie :) This whole semester I felt like I want to do something I've never done before.. idea came to me to have my videos I made with my old boyfriend online ;p. My girlfriends want to join me to on my website. -) Verify your age and connect to my webcam today -) Come check website I put together, I'm not that good tho with comp skills yet but tell me what you think ;0 http://www.springmulch.com/ju18/ you remitting me embroidery me you timbre me mitten me you diopter me coot me you member me foss me you semi me swivel me you acclamation me caustic me you clobber me northrup me you lowboy me bonnie me you monetarism me schizoid me From eugen at leitl.org Sat Jul 23 04:17:14 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:17:14 +0200 Subject: /. [British Police Demand Access To Encryption Keys] Message-ID: <20050723111714.GM2259@leitl.org> Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/22/178227 Posted by: Zonk, on 2005-07-22 18:14:00 from the among-other-things dept. flip-flop writes "In the wake of recent terrorist attacks, police here in the UK [1]have asked for sweeping new powers they claim will help them counter the threat. Among these is making it a criminal offense for people to refuse disclosing their encryption keys when the police want to access someone's files." From the article: "The most controversial of the police proposals is the demand to be able to hold without charge a terrorist suspect for three months instead of 14 days. An Acpo spokesman said the complexity and scale of counter-terrorist operations means the 14-day maximum is often insufficient." References 1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1533917,00.html ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From steve49152 at yahoo.ca Sat Jul 23 13:01:30 2005 From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050723200130.95345.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Tyler Durden wrote: > ...I'm sure most are aware that random searches has begun here in NYC, > at subway stations and in the LIRR. Contraband (drugs, etc...) can get > the owner arrested. The next step, of course, will be to start grabbing > anyone carrying terrorist propaganda, such as the Qu'ran, leaflets, > or even the New York Times. You fucking 'tard; nobody is going to be arrested for carrying a copy of the NYT. This deliberate abrogation of the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure is typical of the way authorities abuse process. This sort of thing happens _all the time_. Here's how the scam works (for those of you who require that their information comes pre-chewed): J. Random Authority will decide that he or she wishes to advance the incremental fait accompli of the tiered police state. He or she examines the political landscape of the moment and identifies a flimsy excuse that may be used to backstop this-or-that draconian measure. In this case, random searches of transit passengers. It is expected that the flagrant violation of the law by the authorites for some contrived need will eventually be examined in court by virtue of some citizen petition that is made in a fit of outrage or pique. Depending on the political reality of the moment, the courts may be encouraged to rule in such a way as to force the complainant through the expensive and time-consuming task of going in front of the Supreme Court. In the meantime, the authorities carry on with their blatantly illegal activities and wait for the courts to rule them in the wrong; if that actually occurs -- by no means a sure thing when science, reason, and logic are habitually excluded from judicial processes. As a nice side effect, many actions of this sort are undertaken with the secondary motive of outraging and provoking so-called undesireable elements within the affected population. In North America, this is the business-as-usual model of government interacting with its citizens. And since every judicial ruling has a small but finite chance of being ruled in the Government's favour, no matter how absurd such a ruling might be, the tiered authoritarian and plutocratic police state is thus incrimentally realized. > The sad thing is that it is still absurdly easy to get whatever you > want into the subways. For one, not every station has any kind of > significant police presence (funny, but the Chambers street station > this morning had multiple possible places where someone could enter > with a backpack, despite the fact that it opens directly inside > "Ground Zero" and the path Trains to New Jersey). But even if there > were police everywhere, there are still many places between stations > where someone determined could enter. Not to mention the subtle, expensive, and time-consuming methods for putting people and things in-place that tend to be favoured by the Usual Suspects. > OK, OK...so the police are deterrents against a few lone crazy > copycats, who don't have enough sense to enter away from police > line-of-site. But it sure seems damned silly to be giving up > constitutional protection for the sake of an image of protection. You got one thing right: it's damned silly. Regards, Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sat Jul 23 18:17:16 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 21:17:16 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <20050723200130.95345.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >From: Steve Thompson >To: cypherpunks at jfet.org >Subject: Re: Well, they got what they want... >Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:01:30 -0400 (EDT) > >--- Tyler Durden wrote: > > > ...I'm sure most are aware that random searches has begun here in NYC, > > at subway stations and in the LIRR. Contraband (drugs, etc...) can get > > the owner arrested. The next step, of course, will be to start grabbing > > anyone carrying terrorist propaganda, such as the Qu'ran, leaflets, > > or even the New York Times. > >You fucking 'tard; nobody is going to be arrested for carrying a copy of >the NYT. Well, if you're saying what I think you're saying, I'm still not so sure. "Lies of the Times" indeed...the Times "Liberal" compared to NYPost, etc...is like Kodos compared to Kang. BUT, -local- authorities just might declare it "Liberal Propaganda". Or worse, ANY litereature (left, right) will be suspect. Is this paranoid? A year or two I would have thought so. But things have gotten so out of wack that anything goes. Cellphones, of course, are the latest scary devices, and here in NYC the towers for them are down in key infrastructural places. I could easily see that being expanded into the Wall Street/downtown area, where we already have multiple barricades and machine gun armed cops. Saw a local security expert on the news, and he stated the obvious: Random searches and whatnot are going to do zero for someone determined, but "might" deter someone who was "thinking about" blowing up the A train. In other words, everyone here in NYC knows that we've given up a lot for the sake of the appearence of security, but no one seems to give a damn. From issy68 at aeplastics.com Sun Jul 24 12:42:31 2005 From: issy68 at aeplastics.com (Vincent Gonzales) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:42:31 -0800 Subject: Your mortagee approval Message-ID: <413624800312804.7113278@> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 680 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: .1.gif Type: image/gif Size: 7610 bytes Desc: not available URL: From caldwell at accesstoledo.com Sun Jul 24 13:08:34 2005 From: caldwell at accesstoledo.com (Rebecca Quintero) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:08:34 -0800 Subject: ReFi or Home Equity loans Message-ID: <016801953534841.2006955@msn.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 985 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: icarus.3.gif Type: image/gif Size: 7610 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sunder at sunder.net Sun Jul 24 16:31:57 2005 From: sunder at sunder.net (sunder) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 19:31:57 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42E424ED.2020207@sunder.net> Tyler Durden wrote: > Saw a local security expert on the news, and he stated the obvious: > Random searches and whatnot are going to do zero for someone > determined, but "might" deter someone who was "thinking about" blowing > up the A train. In other words, everyone here in NYC knows that we've > given up a lot for the sake of the appearence of security, but no one > seems to give a damn. I wouldn't say "we've given up" at all - after all, we've had no choice in the matter. We weren't asked if we wanted to be searched, we weren't asked if we were willing to give up liberty for the appearance of security, we weren't asked if we were ok with atrocities such as the unpatriot act, or the national ID disguised as a standardized driver's license, we weren't asked if we were willing to pay lots of tax dollars to finance more police on every corner and all the toys that they have purchased for these tasks, or the various hollow cement "flower" pots, and other barricades. It's not exactly a liberty that we have sacrificed, when it was taken away without consent. There is another word for this: theft. From Webb at aerialmultimedia.com Sun Jul 24 13:21:21 2005 From: Webb at aerialmultimedia.com ( Nichols) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:21:21 +0100 Subject: Wray Mon, 25 Jul 2005 02:17:21 +06006jorak Message-ID: fkahdazedxbrrwm hvqxoqrufsc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1080 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dmfy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 25 05:12:49 2005 From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:12:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Well, they got what they want... Message-ID: <26334235.1122293569745.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >From: Tyler Durden >Sent: Jul 23, 2005 9:17 PM >To: steve49152 at yahoo.ca, cypherpunks at jfet.org >Subject: Re: Well, they got what they want... ... >Saw a local security expert on the news, and he stated the >obvious: Random earches and whatnot are going to do zero >for someone determined, but "might" deter someone who was >"thinking about" blowing up the A train. In other words, >everyone here in NYC knows that we've given up a lot for >the sake of the appearence of security, but no one seems to >give a damn. I think the reality is a bit different. The random searches won't keep someone who's planning an attack from trying to carry it out, but it may delay their attack, if they made plans based on the old security setup, not the new one. It may also convince them to shift the attack to a new target. --John From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Mon Jul 25 07:05:52 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:05:52 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <26334235.1122293569745.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: John Kelsey wrote... >I think the reality is a bit different. The random searches >won't keep someone who's planning an attack from trying to >carry it out, but it may delay their attack, if they made >plans based on the old security setup, not the new one. It >may also convince them to shift the attack to a new target. > >--John > Well, I think even this is rather optimistic. This morning I took the LIRR into Penn Station, where random searches were being performed (I didn't actually see one). The silly damn thing is that the searches are done -there-, in Penn Station, rather than at the outlying stations. "Is that a b-o-m-b, sir?" "Sure is"...KABOOM. And down comes Madison Square Garden and a major transportation hub. And for this silly shit we sacrificed our civil rights? From gil_hamilton at hotmail.com Mon Jul 25 03:37:39 2005 From: gil_hamilton at hotmail.com (Gil Hamilton) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:37:39 +0000 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <42E424ED.2020207@sunder.net> Message-ID: sunder wrote: >Tyler Durden wrote: > > In other words, everyone here in NYC knows that we've > >given up a lot for the sake of the appearence of security, but no one > >seems to give a damn. > >I wouldn't say "we've given up" at all - after all, we've had no choice in >the matter. We weren't asked if we wanted to be searched, we weren't asked >if we were willing to give up liberty for the appearance of security, we >weren't asked if we were ok with atrocities such as the unpatriot act, or >the national ID disguised as a standardized driver's license, we weren't >asked if we were willing to pay lots of tax dollars to finance more police >on every corner and all the toys that they have purchased for these tasks, >or the various hollow cement "flower" pots, and other barricades. Sure we have been asked. We get asked every two years, which means twice already since 9/11. We keep electing the same assholes who gave us the patriot act, and the national ID cards, and the "assault weapons" ban and all of the Know Your Customer / anti-money-laundering regulations, and the anti-drug laws. "We" have the power to stop all of this if we choose. GH _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From steve49152 at yahoo.ca Mon Jul 25 19:27:45 2005 From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050726022746.65955.qmail@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Tyler Durden wrote: > > > >From: Steve Thompson > >To: cypherpunks at jfet.org > >Subject: Re: Well, they got what they want... > >Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:01:30 -0400 (EDT) > > > >--- Tyler Durden wrote: > > > > > ...I'm sure most are aware that random searches has begun here in > NYC, > > > at subway stations and in the LIRR. Contraband (drugs, etc...) can > get > > > the owner arrested. The next step, of course, will be to start > grabbing > > > anyone carrying terrorist propaganda, such as the Qu'ran, leaflets, > > > or even the New York Times. > > > >You fucking 'tard; nobody is going to be arrested for carrying a copy > of > >the NYT. > > Well, if you're saying what I think you're saying, I'm still not so > sure. Well, what do you *think* I'm saying? Perhaps I could clarify my post. > "Lies of the Times" indeed...the Times "Liberal" compared to NYPost, > etc...is like Kodos compared to Kang. I fail to see the relevance. Domestic security services haven't spent the last few decades co-opting the press for nothing. As far as I'm concerned, it is ludicrous to suggest that quasi-offical state press organs will produce product that will in any way be candidate materials for classification as subversive publications. This premise, however, depends somewhat on the observation that the so-called left and right-wing divisions of the political spectrum are largely illusory. The most strident critics of diametric political opposites in the press and elsewhere would disagree, but their very occupations are rather dependent upon the perception that the evident differences in ideology are more than superficial. But as far as I'm concerned, there is no meaningful difference in most cases. > BUT, -local- authorities just might declare it "Liberal Propaganda". Or > worse, ANY litereature (left, right) will be suspect. Uh-huh. > Is this paranoid? Yes, but in the wrong way. Which makes you either an idiot or a JBT troll. Possibly both. > A year or two I would have thought so. But things > have gotten so out of wack that anything goes. Cellphones, of course, > are the latest scary devices, and here in NYC the towers for them > are down in key infrastructural places. I could easily see that > being expanded into the Wall Street/downtown area, where we already > have multiple barricades and machine gun armed cops. I agree that cell-phones are scary devices, but only because they are proprietary, and because the phone companies are just as bad as the press when it comes to co-operating with the so-called law-enfocement community. Anyone recall Operation Sundevil and friends? > Saw a local security expert on the news, and he stated the obvious: Blah, blah, blah. > Random searches and whatnot are going to do zero for someone > determined, but "might" deter someone who was "thinking about" > blowing up the A train. In other words, everyone here in NYC Uh-huh. Y'know the police planted a stupid story in the local media here (toronto) not too long ago. They said that some wack-job had been deterred from going on a psychotic rampage with his evil guns because he met a friendly dog in a park, and that the dog made him re-assess his homocidal/suicidal ideation. I imgaine the people who thought that one up should cut down on their intake of hallucinogens and laughing gas. As for propogating the silly idea that bombs can be detonated by remote-control with a cell-phone trigger... Well, that's really fucking stupid. Any half-wit could do just as good a job with a one-way pager, or a digital watch -- if he were not so inclined as to cobble toghether a 555 timer and some glue in a shielded enclosure. As I mentioned elsewhere, science, logic, and fact have no major role to play in the operation of courts or law enforcement today. That should be inexcusable to anyone who expects to rely on science, logic, or fact in any other areas of life; such as medicine or transportation, for instance. > knows that we've given up a lot for the sake of the appearence > of security, but no one seems to give a damn. Well ain't that just too fuckin' bad. Regards, Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From steve49152 at yahoo.ca Mon Jul 25 19:34:34 2005 From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <26334235.1122293569745.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20050726023434.90081.qmail@web33513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- John Kelsey wrote: > >From: Tyler Durden > >Sent: Jul 23, 2005 9:17 PM > >To: steve49152 at yahoo.ca, cypherpunks at jfet.org > >Subject: Re: Well, they got what they want... > > ... > >Saw a local security expert on the news, and he stated the > >obvious: Random earches and whatnot are going to do zero > >for someone determined, but "might" deter someone who was > >"thinking about" blowing up the A train. In other words, > >everyone here in NYC knows that we've given up a lot for > >the sake of the appearence of security, but no one seems to > >give a damn. > > I think the reality is a bit different. The random searches > won't keep someone who's planning an attack from trying to > carry it out, but it may delay their attack, if they made > plans based on the old security setup, not the new one. It > may also convince them to shift the attack to a new target. > > --John > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jul 25 20:09:11 2005 From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:09:11 -0400 Subject: [Clips] Russia's Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: clips at philodox.com Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:08:30 -0400 To: Philodox Clips List From: "R.A. Hettinga" Subject: [Clips] Russia's Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment Reply-To: rah at philodox.com Sender: clips-bounces at philodox.com - NEWS - MOSNEWS.COM Russia's Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment Created: 25.07.2005 13:14 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:24 MSK, 16 hours 33 minutes ago MosNews Vardan Kushnir, notorious for sending spam to each and every citizen of Russia who appeared to have an e-mail, was found dead in his Moscow apartment on Sunday, Interfax reported Monday. He died after suffering repeated blows to the head. Kushnir, 35, headed the English learning centers the Center for American English, the New York English Centre and the Centre for Spoken English, all known to have aggressive Internet advertising policies in which millions of e-mails were sent every day. In the past angry Internet users have targeted the American English centre by publishing the Center's telephone numbers anywhere on the Web to provoke telephone calls. The Center's telephone was advertised as a contact number for cheap sex services, or bargain real estate sales. Another attack involved hundreds of people making phone calls to the American English Center and sending it numerous e-mails back, but Vardan Kushnir remained sure of his right to spam, saying it was what e-mails were for. Under Russian law, spamming is not considered illegal, although lawmakers are working on legal projects that could protect Russian Internet users like they do in Europe and the U.S. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' _______________________________________________ Clips mailing list Clips at philodox.com http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Tue Jul 26 07:40:30 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:40:30 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <20050726022746.65955.qmail@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >This premise, however, depends somewhat on the observation that the >so-called left and right-wing divisions of the political spectrum are >largely illusory. The most strident critics of diametric political >opposites in the press and elsewhere would disagree, but their very >occupations are rather dependent upon the perception that the evident >differences in ideology are more than superficial. But as far as I'm >concerned, there is no meaningful difference in most cases. Yeah...the reason you know to say that is because I just made that point. Local authorities, however, can take these differences as meaningful and act upon them. > > Is this paranoid? > >Yes, but in the wrong way. Which makes you either an idiot or a JBT >troll. Possibly both. What the fuck are you talking about? I don't have a clue. >Uh-huh. Y'know the police planted a stupid story in the local media here >(toronto) not too long ago. They said that some wack-job had been >deterred from going on a psychotic rampage with his evil guns because he >met a friendly dog in a park, and that the dog made him re-assess his >homocidal/suicidal ideation. I imgaine the people who thought that one up >should cut down on their intake of hallucinogens and laughing gas. Well, maybe up in Canada. Such a story would be seen as very meaningful here in most of the States, "proof" that we're responding correctly. In other words, as stupid as Canadians can be, Americans are often far stupider. And more belligerent, too, which is why we're in this mess. -TD From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Tue Jul 26 07:42:43 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:42:43 -0400 Subject: [Clips] Russia's Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any indication he was bludgeoned with a can of spam? -TD >From: "R.A. Hettinga" >To: cypherpunks at jfet.org >Subject: [Clips] Russia's Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment >Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:09:11 -0400 > >--- begin forwarded text > > > Delivered-To: clips at philodox.com > Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:08:30 -0400 > To: Philodox Clips List > From: "R.A. Hettinga" > Subject: [Clips] Russia's Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment > Reply-To: rah at philodox.com > Sender: clips-bounces at philodox.com > > > > > - NEWS - MOSNEWS.COM > > Russia's Biggest Spammer Brutally Murdered in Apartment > Created: 25.07.2005 13:14 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:24 MSK, 16 hours 33 > minutes ago > MosNews > > > Vardan Kushnir, notorious for sending spam to each and every citizen of > Russia who appeared to have an e-mail, was found dead in his Moscow > apartment on Sunday, Interfax reported Monday. He died after suffering > repeated blows to the head. > > Kushnir, 35, headed the English learning centers the Center for American > English, the New York English Centre and the Centre for Spoken English, >all > known to have aggressive Internet advertising policies in which millions >of > e-mails were sent every day. > > In the past angry Internet users have targeted the American English >centre > by publishing the Center's telephone numbers anywhere on the Web to >provoke > telephone calls. The Center's telephone was advertised as a contact >number > for cheap sex services, or bargain real estate sales. > > Another attack involved hundreds of people making phone calls to the > American English Center and sending it numerous e-mails back, but Vardan > Kushnir remained sure of his right to spam, saying it was what e-mails >were > for. > > Under Russian law, spamming is not considered illegal, although lawmakers > are working on legal projects that could protect Russian Internet users > like they do in Europe and the U.S. > > -- > ----------------- > R. A. Hettinga > The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > _______________________________________________ > Clips mailing list > Clips at philodox.com > http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips > >--- end forwarded text > > >-- >----------------- >R. A. Hettinga >The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation >44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' From mv at cdc.gov Tue Jul 26 20:04:59 2005 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:04:59 -0700 Subject: go for the head shot -they're wearing puffy jackets Message-ID: <42E6F9DA.3312A75@cdc.gov> Now that the UK got a little feedback for their empire assist, its amusing (in a black, american kinda way) to see them demonstrate their lack of a first amendment. The papers are filled with brits calling for state coercion against their own citizens for their opinions. Naturally, the sheeple will trade liberty for pseudo-security. Which is cooler? A somali surrounded by men with guns, which he figures are mugging him, and who gets shot when he tries to give them his wallet; or a brazilian who gets shot when he thinks he's being mugged by similar anglos with guns? The somali got a few dozen holes, the brazilian less than a dozen, I guess that's the british reluctance to use guns :-) As G Gordon Liddy said, go for the head shot. They're wearing body armor. Or a special vest. Or just a puffy jacket. Whatever. Who knew Orwell was *such* an optimist? Or that the Bill of Rights made such excellent toilet paper? BTW, how do you say "enriched" in Korean? From corpniacin at qualitypagedesign.com Tue Jul 26 20:20:11 2005 From: corpniacin at qualitypagedesign.com (Connie Franklin) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:20:11 -0100 Subject: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:15:11 -0400 Chadwick Fox Message-ID: yoswmfrcae doririlwaqa -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 951 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: borrow Type: image/jpeg Size: 9991 bytes Desc: not available URL: From s.schear at comcast.net Wed Jul 27 07:51:27 2005 From: s.schear at comcast.net (Steve Schear) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:51:27 -0700 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: References: <20050723200130.95345.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20050727074946.04dafc78@mail.comcast.net> At 06:17 PM 7/23/2005, Tyler Durden wrote: >Saw a local security expert on the news, and he stated the obvious: Random >searches and whatnot are going to do zero for someone determined, but >"might" deter someone who was "thinking about" blowing up the A train. In >other words, everyone here in NYC knows that we've given up a lot for the >sake of the appearence of security, but no one seems to give a damn. The term 'securisimilitude' (from verisimilitude) comes to mind. Steve From jrandom at i2p.net Wed Jul 27 08:57:25 2005 From: jrandom at i2p.net (jrandom) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:57:25 -0700 Subject: [i2p] 0.6 is available Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi y'all, After 5 months of crunching and testing on the 0.5 series of releases, we've got the 0.6 build ready for your enjoyment. In here the big change is the new SSU [1] transport running on UDP instead of TCP, allowing us to remove the per-peer thread and memory issues we have seen so far. In addition, some peer review by an anonymous contributor has allowed us to improve some of the cryptographic routines used in the tunnels and connection establishment. A full list of changes is as always up on the web [2]. [1]http://dev.i2p.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/i2p/router/doc/udp.html?rev=HEAD [2]http://dev.i2p.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/i2p/history.txt?rev=HEAD This release includes the base SSU functionality - enabling communication between reachable peers reliably and efficiently, but 0.6.1 will include support for "introducers", letting people behind firewalls and NATs that they don't control join the network and participate fully. While the 0.6 release is deployed and we measure its real world performance, we'll be crunching away on 0.6.1 with the aim of getting that out later this summer. After 0.6.1 stabilizes, we'll package 'er up and stick the "1.0" label on it and move our focus towards providing more engaging user experiences. Updating will be fairly easy, but due to a minor bug in previous releases, you won't be able to use the 0 click update. Instead, just grab the i2pupdate.zip [3] and save it to your I2P install directory, then click on "Graceful restart" [4]. After it restarts, you'll want to "reseed" and make sure your router is reachable from the outside world via UDP on your SSU port (8887 by default). This release is NOT backwards compatible, so please upgrade ASAP - a few services are already on the new release - squid.i2p, cvs.i2p, www.i2p, and dev.i2p, so grab yours today :) [3] http://www.i2p.net/download [4] http://localhost:7657/configservice.jsp This release was a long time coming, both due to caution necessary when designing, implementing, and testing a new transport protocol, as well as my fairly hectic move to a new region and the resulting infrequent internet access. Thanks again for your patience, and especially to the folks contributing code, content, and cash - we'd be in tough shape without y'all! =jr -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFC57tZWYfZ3rPnHH0RAsKdAJ4+U4eDZG17xhUPxHktS531Yx0G9ACdEbLU tl1jInwpe6hlBQ/paK6bA0w= =gfSw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ i2p mailing list i2p at i2p.net http://i2p.dnsalias.net/mailman/listinfo/i2p ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From eugen at leitl.org Wed Jul 27 03:44:43 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:44:43 +0200 Subject: Privacy Guru Locks Down VOIP Message-ID: <20050727104443.GH2259@leitl.org> http://wired.com/news/print/0,1294,68306,00.html Privacy Guru Locks Down VOIP By Kim Zetter Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,68306,00.html 10:20 AM Jul. 26, 2005 PT First there was PGP e-mail. Then there was PGPfone for modems. Now Phil Zimmermann, creator of the wildly popular Pretty Good Privacy e-mail encryption program, is debuting his new project, which he hopes will do for internet phone calls what PGP did for e-mail. Zimmermann has developed a prototype program for encrypting voice over internet protocol, or VOIP, which he will announce at the BlackHat security conference in Las Vegas this week. Like PGP and PGPfone, which he created as human rights tools for people around the world to communicate without fear of government eavesdropping, Zimmermann hopes his new program will restore some of the civil liberties that have been lost in recent years and help businesses shield themselves against corporate espionage. VOIP, or internet telephony, allows people to speak to each other through their computers using a microphone or phone. But because VOIP uses broadband networks to transmit calls, conversations are vulnerable to eavesdropping in the same way that e-mail and other internet traffic is open to snoops. Attackers can also hijack calls and reroute them to a different number. Few people consider these risks, however, when they switch to VOIP. "Years ago, people kind of stumbled into e-mail without really thinking about security," Zimmermann said. "I think that what's happening today with VOIP is that we're kind of stumbling into it (as well) without thinking about security." People don't think about it, he said, because they're used to phone calls being secure on the regular phone system -- known as the Public Switched Telephone Network. "The PSTN is like a well-manicured neighborhood, (while) the internet is like a crime-ridden slum," Zimmermann said. "To move all of our phone calls from the PSTN to the internet seems foolish without protecting it." Interest in VOIP is growing rapidly because the user pays less for the service and pays no long-distance toll charges. Some services are free. According to one recent survey, 11 million people worldwide use a subscription VOIP service, compared to only 5 million in 2004, and at least another 35 million use free VOIP services. That leaves a lot of people potentially open to eavesdropping. It's not as easy to eavesdrop on VOIP as it is to intercept and read e-mail. Phone conversations aren't stored or backed up where an attacker can access them, so the conversations have to be captured as they occur. But a program available for free on the internet already allows intruders to do just that. Using the tool, someone with access to a local VOIP network could capture traffic, convert it to an audio file and replay the voice conversation. The program is called Voice Over Misconfigured Internet Telephones, a name clearly chosen for its catchy acronym -- VOMIT. Bruce Schneier, chief technology officer of Counterpane Internet Security and author of the Crypto-Gram newsletter, said that the need for VOIP encryption is a given. "If you're concerned about eavesdropping, then encryption is how you defend against it," he said. "And it's not that hard to do. It's just a matter of writing the code." But David Endler, chairman of the VOIP Security Alliance industry group and director of security research at TippingPoint, said a protocol for encrypting and protecting VOIP data already exists and companies are starting to make VOIP phones that support the protocol. But he said that people typically don't enable the encryption option. "Probably because we're not seeing attacks yet," he said. He said most users are less concerned with eavesdropping than with having VOIP service that provides the same quality and reliability that they expect from regular phone service. "Some people can see clearly that there's a need for this, and others wonder if anyone cares about protecting phone calls," Zimmermann said. "But those are the same people who wondered why anyone would want to protect e-mail. I think as people gain experience with VOIP they're going to have a great appreciation for the need to come up with extra measures to protect it." Endler also said that companies using VOIP are reluctant to implement encryption because of the overhead involved in managing the public key infrastructure, or PKI. "You have to be able to store a key on most of these end points," he said. PKI requires two keys for encryption: a public key that a user gives to anyone who wishes to communicate with him or her, and a private key, which decrypts messages that the user receives. That won't be a problem with Zimmermann's system, which doesn't use PKI. Zimmermann said PKI is unnecessarily complex for VOIP. "There's no need to centrally manage public key infrastructure to make a phone call, in my view," he said. He won't elaborate on how his system works but is preparing a protocol document that will describe it in detail, which he'll post on the internet when the program is ready. The program is currently only a working prototype and still has non-security bugs that need to be worked out. For example, sometimes the program fails to hang up after a call, forcing the user to exit the program to end the call. It's designed for a Mac, but will be adapted for PCs before Zimmermann makes it available for download. He's looking for investors to back a startup company that will support the product and oversee its distribution. Zimmermann envisions it both as an add-on for manufacturers to put into VOIP phones and as a software client that users can install on their laptop to use when they don't have a VOIP phone with them. Both parties in a conversation will need to have the software on their phone or computer. If only one person has it, the call will still go through but it won't be encrypted. It's been a while since Zimmermann came out with a new encryption product. He released PGP in 1991; it was another five years before he released PGPfone to encrypt data passing between modems. Who could blame him for laying low for a while after the Justice Department launched a three-year criminal investigation of him in 1993? Officials accused him of violating a ban on exporting cryptography when he made PGP available for download on the internet. The government finally dropped its investigation in 1996. The export laws were relaxed in 2000, so at least they're no longer a problem. "There's a lot more crypto in the computer industry now than there was in the '90s," Zimmermann said. "And there's not much authorities can do about it now because we went through this struggle with them in the '90s and we won." Zimmermann isn't taking chances, however. He worked closely with a law firm that specializes in export controls and filed the required paperwork with the Commerce Department notifying the government that his product exists. Still, he delayed producing VOIP encryption after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, because the climate wasn't right. "I was concerned that maybe this would attract some criticism," Zimmermann said. "I just felt that maybe the government had their hands full with enough problems, and I also needed to concentrate on other consulting projects to make money." Zimmermann received hate mail after 9/11 from people who accused him of aiding the attackers by creating a program that allowed terrorists and criminals to shield their correspondence from authorities. The Washington Post erroneously reported shortly after the attacks that Zimmermann was overwhelmed with guilt over the possibility that terrorists might have used PGP to plan their attacks. What he actually said was that he was sorry if al-Qaida used the program, but that this was the trade-off for having a tool that could protect everyone's privacy -- some people would use it with malicious intent. Overall, he said, the world was better off with cryptography in the hands of the masses rather than just in the hands of government. Zimmermann is hoping people will accept his new program with the spirit in which he created it. "Because there are a lot of people who are concerned about the erosion of civil liberties that the Patriot Act brought," Zimmermann said. "I'm hoping that more people would approve of this project than disapprove." Ultimately, however, he said that his encryption program was not about politics, but about the need for protecting critical infrastructure. -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From steve49152 at yahoo.ca Wed Jul 27 10:57:19 2005 From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050727175719.93043.qmail@web33515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Tyler Durden wrote: > >This premise, however, depends somewhat on the observation that the > >so-called left and right-wing divisions of the political spectrum are > >largely illusory. The most strident critics of diametric political > >opposites in the press and elsewhere would disagree, but their very > >occupations are rather dependent upon the perception that the evident > >differences in ideology are more than superficial. But as far as I'm > >concerned, there is no meaningful difference in most cases. > > Yeah...the reason you know to say that is because I just made that > point. Is that correct? 'Cause it looks to me like you're farting chaff. > Local authorities, however, can take these differences as meaningful and > act > upon them. Yes they can. But should they? > > > Is this paranoid? > > > >Yes, but in the wrong way. Which makes you either an idiot or a JBT > >troll. Possibly both. > > What the fuck are you talking about? I don't have a clue. Clue: JBT = Jack-booted thug. Within the cypherpunks list membership, this is usually an identifier referring to people working for the so-called law-enforcement arm of a government -- particulaly one of the federal-level agencies whose personnel believe themselves to be entitled to dictate terms of existence to mere mortals. > >Uh-huh. Y'know the police planted a stupid story in the local media > here > >(toronto) not too long ago. They said that some wack-job had been > >deterred from going on a psychotic rampage with his evil guns because > he > >met a friendly dog in a park, and that the dog made him re-assess his > >homocidal/suicidal ideation. I imgaine the people who thought that one > up > >should cut down on their intake of hallucinogens and laughing gas. > > Well, maybe up in Canada. Such a story would be seen as very meaningful > here > in most of the States, "proof" that we're responding correctly. In other > > words, as stupid as Canadians can be, Americans are often far stupider. > And > more belligerent, too, which is why we're in this mess. I think you would better serve yourself if you were employed doing something productive as opposed to being occupied doing something that merely seems productive. Regards, Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Wed Jul 27 11:48:35 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:48:35 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <20050727175719.93043.qmail@web33515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, apparently you haven't been getting any of my posts to the Al-Qaeda node, otherwise the context would be clear. As for... > > Local authorities, however, can take these differences as meaningful and > > act > > upon them. > >Yes they can. But should they? >From their perspective? Of course. Increased civilian fear=increased job security. That's the whole name of this game here, and probably a big (though arguably unconscious) motivation for the Iraq war. Peace is bad business for the military industrial complex. >Clue: JBT = Jack-booted thug. Within the cypherpunks list membership, >this is usually an identifier referring to people working for the >so-called law-enforcement arm of a government -- particulaly one of the >federal-level agencies whose personnel believe themselves to be entitled >to dictate terms of existence to mere mortals. Huh? I've been on the list since 2001 and this may be the first I've seen this acronym. meanwhile, I'm the guy who initiated the "Stash Burn" thread amongst a myriad of enabling ideas, whereas the only stuff I've seen come through with your name on it is second hand, Hettinga-esque "reporting" (though Hettinga's has auto-edited himself to the point of being fairly interesting of late). So I can only wonder as to your motivation here, Mr "JBT". >I think you would better serve yourself if you were employed doing >something productive as opposed to being occupied doing something that >merely seems productive. This is where I suspect that you're on the Rock. A thought is not coherent merely because you can express it in grammatically correct sentences. -TD From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk Wed Jul 27 08:55:10 2005 From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:55:10 +0100 Subject: Privacy Guru Locks Down VOIP In-Reply-To: <20050727104443.GH2259@leitl.org> References: <20050727104443.GH2259@leitl.org> Message-ID: <42E7AE5E.9080606@gmx.co.uk> Eugen Leitl wrote: > http://wired.com/news/print/0,1294,68306,00.html > > Privacy Guru Locks Down VOIP > By Kim Zetter > > Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,68306,00.html > > 10:20 AM Jul. 26, 2005 PT > > First there was PGP e-mail. Then there was PGPfone for modems. Now Phil > Zimmermann, creator of the wildly popular Pretty Good Privacy e-mail > encryption program, is debuting his new project, which he hopes will do for > internet phone calls what PGP did for e-mail. erm, pgpfone worked over IP - it was one of the earliest VoIP packages I ever encountered, and the very first that used encryption. From eugen at leitl.org Wed Jul 27 09:22:23 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:22:23 +0200 Subject: [jrandom@i2p.net: [i2p] 0.6 is available] Message-ID: <20050727162223.GO2259@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from jrandom ----- From mv at cdc.gov Wed Jul 27 18:49:47 2005 From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret)) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:49:47 -0700 Subject: All your routers are belong to us Message-ID: <42E839BB.5847C850@cdc.gov> Take da subway, its da bomb LAS VEGAS--Cisco Systems has taken legal action to keep a researcher from further discussing a hack into its router software. The networking giant and Internet Security Systems jointly filed a request Wednesday for a temporary restraining order against Michael Lynn and the organizers of the Black Hat security conference. The motion came after Lynn showed in a presentation how attackers could take over Cisco routers--a problem that he said could bring the Internet to its knees. The filing in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California asks the court to prevent Lynn and Black Hat from "further disclosing proprietary information belonging to Cisco and ISS," said John Noh, a Cisco spokesman. "It is our belief that the information that Lynn presented at Black Hat this morning is information that was illegally obtained and violated our intellectual property rights," Noh added. Lynn decompiled Cisco's software for his research and by doing so violated the company's rights, Noh said. The legal moves came Wednesday afternoon, only hours after Lynn gave the talk at the Black Hat security conference here. Lynn told the audience that he had quit his job as a researcher at ISS to deliver the presentation, after ISS had decided to pull the session. Notes on the vulnerability and the talk, "The Holy Grail: Cisco IOS Shellcode and Remote Execution," were removed from the conference proceedings, leaving a gap in the thick book. Lynn outlined how to run attack code on Cisco's Internetwork Operating System by exploiting a known security flaw in IOS. The software runs on Cisco routers, which make up the infrastructure of the Internet. A widespread attack could badly hurt the Internet, he said. The actual flaw he exploited for his attack was reported to Cisco and has been fixed in recent releases of IOS, experts attending Black Hat said. The ISS research team, including Lynn, on Monday decided to cancel the presentation, Chris Rouland, chief technology officer at ISS, said in an interview. "It wasn't ready yet," he said. Lynn resigned from ISS on Wednesday morning and delivered the presentation anyway, Rouland added. Lynn presented ISS research while he was no longer an employee, Rouland said. Adding to the controversy, a source close to the Black Hat organization said that it wasn't ISS and Lynn who wanted to cancel the presentation, but Cisco. Lynn was asked to give a different talk, one on Voice over Internet Protocol security, the source said. But ISS' Rouland said there "was never a VoIP presentation" and that Wednesday's session was supposed to be cancelled altogether. "The research is very important, and the underlying work is important, but we need to work with Cisco to determine the full impact," Rouland said. Previous Next Cisco was involved in pulling the presentation, a source close to the company said. The networking giant had discussions with ISS and they mutually agreed that the research was not yet fully baked, the source said. The demonstration on Wednesday showed an attack on a directly connected router, not a remote attack over the Internet. "You could bring down your own router, but not a remote one," Rouland said. One Black Hat attendee said he was impressed with Lynn's presentation. "He got a shell really easy and showed a basic outline how to do it. A lot of folks have said this could not be done, and he sat up there and did it," said Darryl Taylor, a security researcher. "Shell" is a command prompt that gives control over the operating system. Noh said that Lynn's presentation did not disclose information about a new security vulnerability or new security flaws. "His research explored possible ways to expand the exploitation of existing vulnerabilities affecting routers," the Cisco spokesman said. Cisco has patched several flaws in IOS over the past year. Last year, the San Jose, Calif., networking giant said that part of the IOS source code had been stolen, raising fears of more security bugs being found. On Wednesday, Noh reiterated the company's usual advice that customers upgrade their software to the latest versions to mitigate vulnerabilities. Following his presentation, Lynn displayed his resume to the audience and announced he was looking for a job. Lynn was not available for comment. Representatives of the Black Hat organization said the researcher was meeting with lawyers. From jloifzahovebb at apexpromotion.com Wed Jul 27 20:17:32 2005 From: jloifzahovebb at apexpromotion.com (Caleb Ledford) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:17:32 -0700 Subject: Impact Equ-ity Report Message-ID: <349445336303.PYM07574@cromwell.aurstad.com> WORLD STOCK REPORT ISSUED FOR JULY 28, 2005 EXPLOSIVE PICK FOR OUR MEMBERS -- !!!!!RIDE THE STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN!!!! 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All factual infor mation in this report was gat hered fr om public sources, including but not limited to SEC filings,Company Websites and Compa ny Press Rel eases. The publisher of this newsl etter beli eves this informationto be eliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or comple teness. Use of the mat rial within this email consti tutes your accepta nce of these terms. From sunder at sunder.net Thu Jul 28 03:52:59 2005 From: sunder at sunder.net (sunder) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:52:59 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20050727074946.04dafc78@mail.comcast.net> References: <20050723200130.95345.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.0.1.1.0.20050727074946.04dafc78@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <42E8B90B.6060508@sunder.net> Steve Schear wrote: > > The term 'securisimilitude' (from verisimilitude) comes to mind. > > Steve > True, but I think the goal was FUD and it worked. On Tuesday (I think) both the Metro and AMNY free rags reported that all of a sudden there was a rash of suspicious packages being reported. Ya think? Another incident was of a homeless guy putting his luggage on a ticket counter and claiming it had a bomb in it. Think someone yanked his chain to the point where he'd sarcasm himself into jail? Of course the bright bulbs in charge evacuated all of Penn Station supposedly. In another article, one that stated NYCLU was against the searches, but claimed most people were happy to open their bags and some even walked up to the cops, opened their bags and said "here, look at mine", another gave a quote from a supposed police officer saying that July had a ~23% drop in crime. Well, that's nice and all, but the bag searches started only 3 days before, so WTF does the crime rate for July (which hasn't yet ended) have anything to do with bag searches that just started? The funniest part are the letters to the editors thanking the police and saying how wonderful it is to be living in a country where you're safe. Of course, if you were to tell these folks 10 years ago, that you'll be subject to search when entering the subway, or that you couldn't bring a nail clipper with you when boarding an airplane, they'd go "Shucks, no way that would happen in my country!" I love the smell of propaganda in the morning. It smells like FUD. From eugen at leitl.org Thu Jul 28 08:41:24 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 17:41:24 +0200 Subject: Department of Homeland Security Surveillance Truck Message-ID: <20050728154124.GU2259@leitl.org> http://eyeball-series.org/dhs-truck.htm -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From eugen at leitl.org Thu Jul 28 09:44:12 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:44:12 +0200 Subject: /. [RFID Tags To Track Foreigners, Identify Dead] Message-ID: <20050728164412.GB2259@leitl.org> Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/28/1456246 Posted by: Zonk, on 2005-07-28 15:46:00 from the many-purposes dept. An anonymous reader writes "U.S. security officials say they [1]will use RFID technology at border posts with Canada and Mexico to track foreigners driving in and out of the United States. A Department of Homeland Security spokesman said wireless chips for vehicles would become mandatory at designated border crossings in Canada and Mexico as of Aug. 4. At the same time, British officials are considering using [2]RFID chips to identify the dead in the wake of a disaster." From the British article: "...following the bomb blasts on the London Underground, the process of identifying some bodies - particularly on the deep-lying Piccadilly Line - became very difficult, with some families upset by the amount of time it took to confirm a relative had died. VeriChip advocates argue it could help in these circumstances. " References 1. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=166403260 2. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4721175.stm ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From uzzcxzmc at wenet.net Thu Jul 28 19:18:05 2005 From: uzzcxzmc at wenet.net (Mari Burks) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 08:18:05 +0600 Subject: Interesting Article. Message-ID: <5D31D5E4.1236521F@sbcglobal.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5677 bytes Desc: not available URL: From njjryeflhal at nchoicemail.com Fri Jul 29 00:56:11 2005 From: njjryeflhal at nchoicemail.com (Bryon Wiley) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:56:11 +0200 Subject: No subject Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 796 bytes Desc: not available URL: From oconnell at aesp.com Fri Jul 29 20:05:32 2005 From: oconnell at aesp.com (Sallie Vang) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:05:32 -0800 Subject: Homeowner, you have been prequalified for a decreased percentage Message-ID: <23737.$$.22873.Etrack@> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 676 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: .5.gif Type: image/gif Size: 8467 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at farber.net Sat Jul 30 09:05:11 2005 From: dave at farber.net (David Farber) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:05:11 -0600 Subject: [IP] editorial comment -- more on middle-aged white females Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: "Paul Biggar" Sent: 7/30/05 8:22:53 AM To: "David Farber" Subject: Re: [IP] editorial comment -- more on middle-aged white females Dave, > Are Americans conscious of what the consequences of their foreign > policies of the last 50 years are turning them into? Totally paranoid, > terrorist-obsessed crazies. What on earth are they feeding into you > people's heads day-in and day-out over there? And now Tony B. Liar > is bringing the same upon the British. There was some criticism of this rant, and I wish to defend the poster. A casual observer of this list would certainly question the state of the nation. America is branded as the land of the free, where the Bill of Rights guarantees inalienable rights to individuals. At the same time, the fear of terrorists allows certain Americans to torture 'enemy combatants'[1], to search individuals at random[2], and to wiretap without judicial consent[3]. Secret hearings[4], secret trials[5] and secret laws[6] are all on the agenda in the name of protecting America from terrorists. These are supported by those running the country; the very people who are meant to defend your freedoms and the constitution. To go from here to ask whether American are 'totally paranoid terror-obsessed crazies' is no leap of the imagination; one must merely switch on Fox News. While the tone may have been harsh, I don't believe the poster should be chastised as 'childish', at least not by intelligent people, who should see the serious issues under his rhetoric. I would prefer those issues* were addressed, lest all Americans be painted with the same brush stroke. Yours Paul Biggar * These being: -"Never a word questioning the rationality of a society that apparently thinks it normal to wants to treat all of its citizens as criminal suspects in the first place." - "Are Americans conscious of what the consequences of their foreign policies of the last 50 years are turning them into?" - "What on earth are they feeding into you people's heads day-in and day-out over there?" [1] http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200412/msg00073 .html [2] http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200507/msg00207 .html [3] http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200504/msg00205 .html [4] http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200410/msg00258 .html [5] http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200408/msg00328 .html [6] http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200507/msg00234 .html ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl leitl ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] From steve49152 at yahoo.ca Sat Jul 30 13:32:57 2005 From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050730203257.97899.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Tyler Durden wrote: > Well, apparently you haven't been getting any of my posts to the > Al-Qaeda > node, otherwise the context would be clear. I'm not even going to bother with you anymore. Your motivation is quite clear enough, and any further bad-faith back-and-forth on your part would be superfluous to the task of proving that you won't be serious when you reply to my messages. Regards, Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From camera_lumina at hotmail.com Sat Jul 30 13:44:13 2005 From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:44:13 -0400 Subject: Well, they got what they want... In-Reply-To: <20050730203257.97899.qmail@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's an old pattern to character assassins: "I've attacked you publically but I really don't want to have defend what I've said or reply to suggestions about my own motivation." Great. Fuck you too. Hope the new Stazi grab you while you bitch and complain and do nothing. -TD >From: Steve Thompson >To: Tyler Durden , cypherpunks at jfet.org >Subject: Re: Well, they got what they want... >Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:32:57 -0400 (EDT) > > >--- Tyler Durden wrote: > > > Well, apparently you haven't been getting any of my posts to the > > Al-Qaeda > > node, otherwise the context would be clear. > >I'm not even going to bother with you anymore. Your motivation is quite >clear enough, and any further bad-faith back-and-forth on your part would >be superfluous to the task of proving that you won't be serious when you >reply to my messages. > > >Regards, > >Steve > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com From eugen at leitl.org Sat Jul 30 12:07:01 2005 From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:07:01 +0200 Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] editorial comment -- more on middle-aged white females] Message-ID: <20050730190701.GF2259@leitl.org> ----- Forwarded message from David Farber ----- From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jul 30 20:02:53 2005 From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:02:53 -0400 Subject: [Clips] Finger points to British intelligence as al-Qaeda websites are wiped out Message-ID: --- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: clips at philodox.com Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:01:38 -0400 To: Philodox Clips List From: "R.A. Hettinga" Subject: [Clips] Finger points to British intelligence as al-Qaeda websites are wiped out Reply-To: rah at philodox.com Sender: clips-bounces at philodox.com The Times of London July 31, 2005 Finger points to British intelligence as al-Qaeda websites are wiped out Over the past fortnight Israeli intelligence agents have noticed something distinctly odd happening on the internet. One by one, Al-Qaeda's affiliated websites have vanished until only a handful remain, write Uzi Mahnaimi and Alex Pell. Someone has cut the line of communication between the spiritual leaders of international terrorism and their supporters. Since 9/11 the websites have been the main links to disseminate propaganda and information. The Israelis detect the hand of British intelligence, determined to torpedo the websites after the London attacks of July 7. The web has become the new battleground of terrorism, permitting a freedom of communication denied to such organisations as the IRA a couple of decades ago. One global jihad site terminated recently was an inflammatory Pakistani site, www.mojihedun.com, in which a section entitled How to Strike a European City gave full technical instructions. Tens of similar sites, some offering detailed information on how to build and use biological weapons, have also been shut down. However, Islamic sites believed to be "moderate", remain. One belongs to the London-based Syrian cleric Abu Basir al-Tartusi, whose www.abubaseer.bizland.com remained operative after he condemned the London bombings. However, the scales remain weighted in favour of global jihad, the first virtual terror organisation. For all the vaunted spying advances such as tracking mobile phones and isolating key phrases in telephone conversations, experts believe current technologies actually play into the hands of those who would harm us. "Modern technology puts most of the advantages in the hands of the terrorists. That is the bottom line," says Professor Michael Clarke, of King's College London, who is director of the International Policy Institute. Government-sponsored monitoring systems, such as Echelon, can track vast amounts of data but have so far proved of minimal benefit in preventing, or even warning, of attacks. And such systems are vulnerable to manipulation: low-ranking volunteers in terrorist organisations can create background chatter that ties up resources and maintains a threshold of anxiety. There are many tricks of the trade that give terrorists secure digital communication and leave no trace on the host computer. Ironically, the most readily available sources of accurate online information on bomb-making are the websites of the radical American militia. "I have not seen any Al-Qaeda manuals that look like genuine terrorist training," claims Clarke. However, the sobering message of many security experts is that the terrorists are unlikely ever to lose a war waged with technology. -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' _______________________________________________ Clips mailing list Clips at philodox.com http://www.philodox.com/mailman/listinfo/clips --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "When the hares made speeches in the assembly and demanded that all should have equality, the lions replied, "Where are your claws and teeth?" -- attributed to Antisthenes in Aristotle, 'Politics', 3.7.2 From sqjci at marca.es Sat Jul 30 17:28:08 2005 From: sqjci at marca.es (Melinda Cates) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 01:28:08 +0100 Subject: Finest online drvgs here Message-ID: Hello Find your medications without delay! You can track your prescritions online. All your pills in one place! Go here to order _______________________ Put this domain into your webrowser ---> meandumeds.net From qnqqii at nzemail.co.nz.jfet.org Sun Jul 31 03:05:48 2005 From: qnqqii at nzemail.co.nz.jfet.org (Angelica Jimenez) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 04:05:48 -0600 Subject: Details requested. Message-ID: <20039307.041168.21245751.cfmd@swipnet.se> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3975 bytes Desc: not available URL: From EstelleOverton at merseymail.com Sun Jul 31 19:15:27 2005 From: EstelleOverton at merseymail.com (Nigel Nixon) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 04:15:27 +0200 Subject: Attention SmallCap Investors Message-ID: POP3 MEDIA CORP(POPT) A company which has positioned itself in the gap between the major media conglomerates and the universe of independent music, film, publishing and technology companies. Current Price: 0.014 Will it Continue Higher? Watch This One Monday as We Know Many of You Like Momentum. H0t St0ck Huge News!! Pop3 Media Corp. announced that the Company is in the final stages of negotiations to acquire the rights to an exciting new proprietary portable data storage technology which is currently under development. 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