Quantum Loop Gravity Be For Whitey

[bgt]

On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:15, cubic-dog wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, bgt wrote:
> > ... Anyway... "be productive or be deported" does not constitute
> 
> I don't think I said that, you put it in quotes, implying I did.
> It's an okay paraphrase though, so we'll take it like that.

Yes, it was intended as a paraphrase. 

> More like I said, without regard to what you DEALT for, the is
> no impetus on the "man" to pay what was agreed to. If you don't
> like it, you will be deported. This does a nice job of creating

For currently illegal immigrants, you're right: the contract (the
agreement to do x work for y money is a contract, however 
informal) is illegal and so unenforceable. This leaves these 
workers open to theft by "stiffing" as you put it. 

The guest worker program will legalize these immigrants (for a 
period of time), so the contract will be legal and become 
enforceable.  Why do you think the guest worker program will
make it worse in this regard for currently illegal immigrants?  
This is the weakest objection to this program I've heard yet. 

> The ditch diggers in question, were -as a group- being paid
> (I asked) $500 to put in that run of conduit. As there 
> were six of them, and it took a couple of days, well, do the
> math. 
> 
> Much cheaper than renting a ditchwitch and operator.
> 
> They had done this before, and would do it again. Some runs go
> better than others, and I'll be some days they might actually
> make as much as a 7/11 clerk. But not many.

If both parties agreed and adhered to these terms, I see no
problem with any of that.  Employers and employees should be 
free to negotiate their own terms without the coercive 
interference by the State (via minimum wage, overtime, maximum 
work week, etc regulations). 

> What happens when the "man" arbitrarily decides to stiff them
> from their payment? 
> 
> Will the labor department come to mitigate? Or will immigration
> come to deport? 
> 
> What's more likely under the proposed "guest worker" rule? 

See above for my answers to this.

> > for substantially less than you.  In fact, it is only Free people
> > who can sell their product (including their own labor) for whatever
> > they want (and, obviously, that someone will pay). 
> 
> Who can sell their labour for whatever they want? 
> I am only aware of folks who can sell their labour for what
> the market will bear. 

Oh please, did you not read the last 6 words of my sentence?
"(and, obviously, that someone will pay)" means "what the 
market will bear".  Of *course* there has to be a willing buyer
to complete the transaction. 

--bgt