Fake News for Big Brother

[David Howe]

at Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:39 PM, Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com>
was seen to say:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 10:40:27AM +0100, David Howe wrote:
>> They aren't *knowingly* lieing - that is the point. Church types
>> firmly believe hell exists, and only pestering a omnipotent and
>> omniscient being (who therefore already knows what they
> Are you sure that all "church types" are in it for the good of their
> faith? Not one preacher or evangelist, in the history of mankind, has
> secretly become an athiest but concludes: Hey, this is a pretty good
> gig; I'm going to lie...
  Almost certainly. and it would be a major pain to try and separate
them out from the people who actually believe they are acting for the
good of their God or Gods.

>> Nope. but they should be prosecuted if they front-page splash it as
>> "earth doomed, we have two weeks to live, there is no hope" and fail
>> to mention that it is a religious prediction
> Prosecuted? Put in prison? What the hell are you thinking?
  That it is no different from shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre -
which appears to be the standard example in this sort of discussion.

>> That is borderline. given that the accepted body of fact admits that
>> the Holocaust not only happened, but was pretty much as described by
>> the Jewish lobby, then any claims that it
> You're a bit of a censorial twit, aren't you?
  If you chose to see it that way, yes. Enough holocaust deniers have
tried to duke it out in court and lost that I am more than a bit
sceptical about yet another one. The deeds of the nazis were so dark the
term "war crime" was almost invented to deal with them - certainly the
hague court was - and the nazis are such an obvious black reference
point that almost anyone seems clean by comparison.
  The worst excesses of the nazis are increasingly in the past - well
over half a century ago now - and there has been no credible evidence
presented in that time that the jewish lobby invented or exaggerated
anything that happened in those death camps for their own gain.
  I class the holocaust deniers pretty much the same as the religious
fanatics who try to deny evolution - firmly convinced of their own
rightness, despite an overwhelming body of evidence disproving their
position.  Its nice they have firmly held beliefs, but I don't feel any
real reason to listen to them, and a big enough body of people trying to
force *their* beliefs on me is irksome (cue any of asimov's frequent
comments on "ignorance waving the bible")
If you are asking if I believe that people should be prosecuted for
simply believing this, or even publicly stating this belief then no - it
is only when (like with evolution) they try to get their version of
events accepted as the "official" version that they should provide
proof - if (for example) a history teacher taught his entire class that
WW2 was in fact started by the jews and that they turned on the nazis
when they saw the war was lost, faking evidence to make it look like,
far from being equal partners with the nazis in the war, they were a
persecuted minority - then I would expect that teacher to be suspended
at the very least, if not prosecuted (hence the evidence - he would be
free to present his overwhelmingly persuasive evidence as to the true
facts of the war in court)