An attack on paypal --> secure UI for browsers

[Adam Shostack]

A charming naivete.

*Plonk*


On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 04:29:23PM -0400, Sunder wrote:
| Oh get over it.  There are other formats.  You ever heard of
| XML?  HTML? RTF?
| 
| If the day comes where MS Office DRM only works with MS Office DRM, how
| many people will switch to it?  If your company is willing to switch to
| it, then they'll give you a PC with it on it.  If they don't, then they
| can't expect you to interact with them via such formats and can't require
| you to do so.
|
| You sound like someone's holding a gun to your head and requiring you to
| have MS Office.
| 
| Either way, you can ask them to export to other document formats which you
| can read.  Even now Office will export to HTML for example which is
| readable by Mozilla and other browsers.
| 
| Microsoft is not the DMV.  You don't need to use their software.
| 
| And no, I will never be part of your problem because the documents I will
| create for non work use will be made with Open Office or will be plain
| text, html, or xml files.
| 
| If I'm required to use a DRM'ed Office for work, then fine, my company
| owns those documents anyway and they can do whatever the fuck they like
| with them either way.   It doesn't matter to me at all -- it's their call,
| it's their company, it's their documents.
| 
| But, for personal use, I won't buy any upgrades or new Microsoft
| software.  End of story.
| 
| Either way, how much a revolt do you think there will be if Microsoft
| decides to lock down their tools (such as word) to the point where they
| can no longer export to HTML, plain text, RTF should the author wish 
| it to do so and provides whatever passphrases or ID's needed to unlock
| the document and export it out?
| 
| Who would buy such a dog of a product?  Do you think businesses are so
| stupid that they'd put up with a product that jails them in?  Get real
| son, you're howling at the moon!
| 
| On one hand you're bitching that you have to use Microsoft software on the
| other you're complaining that I'm using it while I'm telling you I don't
| want to and don't care to and won't upgrade to it.
| 
| You want to make a difference?  Go ahead, wipe every bit of Microsoft
| wares off all your machines and burn the CD's you've installed them
| from.  Go all open source and show others the right way.  At least I'd
| have some respect for you for voting with your wallet and practicing what
| you preach.
| 
| Right now all you're doing is bitching that you're forced to buy and use
| Microsoft Office.  I say that's bullshit, and you know it.
| 
| 
| ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
|  + ^ + :25Kliters anthrax, 38K liters botulinum toxin, 500 tons of   /|\
|   \|/  :sarin, mustard and VX gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, nukular /\|/\
| <--*-->:weapons.. Reasons for war on Iraq - GWB 2003-01-28 speech.  \/|\/
|   /|\  :Found to date: 0.  Cost of war: $800,000,000,000 USD.        \|/
|  + v + :           The look on Sadam's face - priceless!       
| --------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
| 
| On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Adam Shostack wrote:
| 
| > Sure.  And I'm glad you work with a small group of people who
| > understand that you don't read their documents.  After many years of
| > refusal, I finally gave up.  I work with lots of customers who expect
| > documents in MS formats, and look at you askance for giving them
| > anything else.  You only get so many explanations before customers go
| > elsewhere, and I chose not to spend them on this.  Similarly, I could
| > choose to speak to everyone I meet in, say, Russian.  And some folks
| > would understand.  Others would walk away.  So, you can argue that
| > you're effectively required to speak English to do business in North
| > America.  I would argue that you're similarly required to use MS
| > Office.
| > 
| > 
| > You'll be part of the problem when Nogsuccob is apon us, because the
| > documents you create won't be readable in OpenOffice, and Crossover
| > won't run.
| >
| > 
| > Office Nogsuccob will only interoperate with itself.  Companies will end
| > up deploying it to interact with other versions, not for any real
| > feature.
| > 
| > You don't like the word force, I suggest quitting all use of .DOC,
| > .PPT, and .XLS formats.  Please educate the world on how much better
| > the alternatives are.  Me, I'll pay my $200 to not bother today, and
| > regret it tomorrow.
| > 
| > And by the way, do you have a driver's license, or other state-issued
| > ID card?
| 

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume